Forums - Etiquette and Honor Show all 163 posts from this thread on one page Forums (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/index.php) - Fighting Game Discussion (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?forumid=8) -- Etiquette and Honor (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=17161) Posted by Fenrir on 05:07:2001 02:42 PM: Not to long ago i started an argument about honor and cheapness in MVC2. There were people who said there can be no honor in a game such as this... there were others who play with the utmost honor... Some said that the way the game is now, you MUST be cheap and you MUST do traps and infinits and grind(chipblock) damage to even be able to keep up. I personally dont play like that... i dont like it... i CAN do them(albeit not all the time)... i CAN get out of traps and infintes. I dont do grind damage either. Its just not honorable to me. Its just i feel that with the shear amount of characters in the game y do people feel the need to use the same few people and the same few moves? Some say that most of the characters are useless and i kinda agree... but if you know what your doing then any character can whoopaw on anyone... Well post and tell me what you think... give your main team and how you play... Just want to see how people across the US plays. I personally play for honor. If theres no honor, then why are you even fighting... Posted by Million on 05:07:2001 02:47 PM: Not all the characters are useless. Roll on the other hand.....everyone is right about her Posted by Zazzarius on 05:07:2001 02:50 PM: hrmm, this is what i think makes the most sense: in "friendly games," which are games for fun, there is cheapness and honor, cuz its all in the name of fun, right? in "tournament games," which is just games are JUST to prove who is the better player, there is no honor, there is no cheapness, and anything goes so, in summation. its ok to do an ahvbx5 on some guy taunting like an ass in the arcade, cuz we've all met this guy its ok to do an ahvbx5 on some guy in a tourney, cuz they will probably do it to you if they get the chance it is NOT ok to do an ahvbx5 on one of your friends who is a newbie trying to learn ok? Posted by Mader on 05:07:2001 02:51 PM: Yeah I fight with honor. no inifites here ! And I play with almost every characters, so i'm not always playing a doom,black,spiral. I play for fun,,,, and wining. It's just that unfortunilty some people think that wining is the only thing on their minds, these ppl have no honor ! one of my fav team = hayato,cable,spidey Posted by twogspecial on 05:07:2001 02:56 PM: If you want honor, go play golf or join the military. I play to win, and as for my main characters, It's usually whoever I am in the mood for, I have been called everything in the book, and yet when I lose, and I have lost a lot, I say nothing just put my quarter up. My favorite character is Megaman, but I can play with anyone. You have to understand, you have to lose to get better. When you do lose, it is up to you to pick another team, which might be a better matchup to what is against you. Posted by Psycho Soldier on 05:07:2001 03:38 PM: I try to play honorable... a lot of the times when I go to arcades, I sit back and observe what the players are doing, and keep a keen ear out for what people are saying about the action. People are not afraid to mumble under their breath about how "cheezy" or "cheap" someone is playing. When one person is saying it, you pretty much ignore it... but when everyone at attendance is doing so, you can get a picture of what type of players you're surrounded by. Then, I adjust my gameplay accordingly... I always play a game to learn something new, not just to develop win streaks or to use overly effective techniques that I know will win. Everyone plays to win... that's just a given. But if that's the only reason why you play a game, then you're probably missing out on something that the game is trying to provide. Posted by DJ SKILLZ on 05:07:2001 03:48 PM: I'm tired of MvC2. Thank u. Posted by jedirobb on 05:07:2001 04:08 PM: i would agree about friendly play and tournament play.. i dont have a problem getting cheesed (and godam it you people know what cheese is..) at a tourney because it is a tourney and its all about winning then...fine but when we are just kicking back playing games at the arcade after work etc - i dont feel that we need that kinda play - i mean really if ya gotta play with the same characters - oh i dunno - brush up on combos or something i know ya need to practice but i dunno - it just gets ugly... i just think we miss out on a lot of fun characters because of it - its nice to be playing with the whacky characters having a good time trying to do outrageous combos etc - then a punk comes up and playes all hard.. you most likey end up getting killed and then you pull out your team & there goes the rest of the afternoon in a pissing match.. sigh... oh well my favorite moron quote has got to be "how am i supposed to get better if i play for fun" riiiigght - what an ass = ) Posted by State of Nature on 05:07:2001 04:17 PM: quote: Originally posted by Fenrir i CAN get out of traps and infintes. Oh really? I think I speak for everybody in the world including the best players in Cali and New York when I ask you how you get out of an infinite. Let me guess. You take 45 hits, and then fall to the ground? Posted by Fenrir on 05:07:2001 04:31 PM: ok.... infinites are not really infinte... its a sting of hits that you can keep doing untill yoru dead or you button jam and can get out of them... but you can get out of everything in the game... and yes i can get out of them after about 6 - 8 hits... after the first four then you can tell its an infinite then it does take a few hits to finally get out of it.. Posted by Zazzarius on 05:07:2001 04:38 PM: um, ok getting out of trap i can see but escaping an infinite, if it is a true infinite like ironman's, can only happen if the other guy screws up, lets you go, or you are dead what are you trying to say? "and yes i can get out of them after about 6 - 8 hits... after the first four then you can tell its an infinite then it does take a few hits to finally get out of it.. " huh? i don't get it clarify that, cuz that is as clear as sludge ??? Posted by Fenrir on 05:07:2001 04:42 PM: if you mash all the buttons it will let you out of it... even iron mans... Posted by Hentai on 05:07:2001 05:39 PM: oh, ok honor, im sorry i thought i was playing in an arcade in the year 2001 ,apparently your playing in ancient japan.. my bad... hate to break this to you but its a video game.. if you have some sort of belief system built around the game then your taking it way to seriously. Posted by Psycho Soldier on 05:07:2001 06:02 PM: quote: Originally posted by Hentai oh, ok honor, im sorry i thought i was playing in an arcade in the year 2001 ,apparently your playing in ancient japan.. my bad... hate to break this to you but its a video game.. if you have some sort of belief system built around the game then your taking it way to seriously. No need to get defensive there... although the idea of being in ancient Japan for a day doies sound cool. The same argument can be used for your beliefs as well: "It's just a video game... why play the game as if your life will cease to exist if you lose your 50 cents?" In that case, you obviously take the game too seriously too? It's just a matter of preference... I play in a style where I do LOTS of experimenting, regardless of knowing what works or not. You "play to win", so as long as the move works you do it... until someone comes along and proves otherwise. Sounds as if we BOTH take the game WAY too seriously, doesn't it? Posted by twogspecial on 05:07:2001 06:26 PM: If you want to experiment, go play at home on your DC. I want some serious comp when I go to the arcade, if I wanted fluff, I would stay home. I believe the arcade is where you bring your best, win you stay in, lose put your quarter up buddy. It is all about the competition and getting better, everyone has to play at their best, that way it will elevate the level of play in your area. If a little kid wants to play he has to bring it, or don't waste my time. As far as honor is concerned, where is the honor if you don't give it your all. If your opponent has cable you have to expect the ahvbx3, or if they have spiral expect the wall of swords. That is all part of the game, just because your not good at playing against some characters, doesn't mean they are cheap or dishonorable, it means your not a complete player and need to devise some counter those characters. I play terrible when someone picks BH for some reason, doesn't mean their cheap, that just an aspect of the game I need to work on. Posted by Strider Hiryu on 05:07:2001 07:24 PM: quote: Originally posted by Fenrir if you mash all the buttons it will let you out of it... even iron mans... Ummm.. are you jokin, or are you really that stupid? Coz i would love to see you frantically try to mash out of an Iron Man infinite during a tournament.... Posted by Hentai on 05:07:2001 08:23 PM: quote: Originally posted by twogspecial If you want to experiment, go play at home on your DC. I want some serious comp when I go to the arcade, if I wanted fluff, I would stay home. I believe the arcade is where you bring your best, win you stay in, lose put your quarter up buddy. It is all about the competition and getting better, everyone has to play at their best, that way it will elevate the level of play in your area. If a little kid wants to play he has to bring it, or don't waste my time. As far as honor is concerned, where is the honor if you don't give it your all. If your opponent has cable you have to expect the ahvbx3, or if they have spiral expect the wall of swords. That is all part of the game, just because your not good at playing against some characters, doesn't mean they are cheap or dishonorable, it means your not a complete player and need to devise some counter those characters. I play terrible when someone picks BH for some reason, doesn't mean their cheap, that just an aspect of the game I need to work on. Exactly, i've been hearing people bitch about cheapness and babel about honor since sf2:ww, its BS, remeber in WW when people would do jab,jab,jab Throw over and over? every said that was cheap, until people found a way out.. remeber in CE when people would Psycho Torpedo back and forth with bison all day? people said that was cheap until they found a way around it, and in this case personally it made me a lot better with DPs. in every case a move thats "cheap" usually makes you work a way around it and then become a better player yourself, (I FUCKING HATE TO USE A CHESS REFERENCE FOR SF BUT) in chess there is a move (a trap) that can win the game in 4 moves, i believe its called the fools trap (correct me if im wrong), anyway when i was like 12 or so people used to bust this on me all the time until i could see it start and stop it, this made me a better player all around because i was watching the whole board more and protecting myself better. so dont bitch about honor and cheapness, it will all make you a better player in the end. Posted by Psycho Soldier on 05:07:2001 08:24 PM: quote: Originally posted by twogspecial If you want to experiment, go play at home on your DC. I want some serious comp when I go to the arcade, if I wanted fluff, I would stay home. I believe the arcade is where you bring your best, win you stay in, lose put your quarter up buddy. It is all about the competition and getting better, everyone has to play at their best, that way it will elevate the level of play in your area. If a little kid wants to play he has to bring it, or don't waste my time. Heh... some players can experiment AND keep a good game going... don't just assume that since players are not doing what the rest of the world is doing in a game that they're just "wasting your time". Even an expert can learn something new once in a while. Don't get me wrong... if I had to play "serious" like a lot of people scream about I could. I could go by the stats, take a team like Storm/Setinal/Cyclops, or Spiral/Dr. Doom/Strider and give you a run for your money. But alas, EVERYONE is doing things like this now and I hate being a "duplicator". That's why, I would rather take a team like Sakura/BB Hood/Ken and try something different. Sure, I'm at a disadvantage and I may lose, but you don't hear me whining about losing... I already know I placed myself in a losing situation. But neither of these characters are totally incapable of pulling out something surprising if played the right way. And yes, I would have been playing this team heavily at home, so don't be surprised if the battle got REALLY close... quote: As far as honor is concerned, where is the honor if you don't give it your all. If your opponent has cable you have to expect the ahvbx3, or if they have spiral expect the wall of swords. That is all part of the game, just because your not good at playing against some characters, doesn't mean they are cheap or dishonorable, it means your not a complete player and need to devise some counter those characters. I play terrible when someone picks BH for some reason, doesn't mean their cheap, that just an aspect of the game I need to work on. Remember, it's just a game and a couple of quarters. Everyone has their own vision towards what's "honorable" in regular gameplay, and not everyone agrees with the "play hard or don't play at all" philosophy. That doesn't mean that they're not trying their best, nor does that mean that they suck. They like putting the concept of having fun before winning. For instance, people I consider "honorable" are those that can do something in a game that I either haven't seen, or can put together a really impressive combo which takes LOTS of skill... Not just because they can fill up the screen with swords and do 3xAHVB to all of their competition and get a 20+ win streak... just about anyone can do that these days. Hell, even long aerial Magneto combos, or hard traps like Strider/Doom look more impressive than that. But again, that's just my idea of "honorable"... yours is obviously different. Posted by Dasrik on 05:07:2001 08:36 PM: I've said it once and I'll say it again. Codes of honor are for idiots. Period. Posted by BarrelO on 05:07:2001 08:46 PM: This is absurd. "Honor" is just a crutch for people who don't want to spend the time to get better at a game. I have yet to see anyone who lost all the time have his style of play characterized as dishonorable. If you don't like traps and block damage, don't play. Or better yet, learn how to use Magneto and rush that shit down. Justin Wong isn't dominating the East Coast by chipping people to death. Posted by Psycho Soldier on 05:07:2001 08:56 PM: Yep, I knew people would obviously not see what I'm trying to say and just write me off as an "idiot". That's just the way I am... doesn't make me any less knowledgable or capable than anyone else. To assume that is a major flaw on your behalf, and brings you one step closer to being humbled on the battlefield. But as long as we both have fun playing, that's the only thing that really matters. So, you guys can continue to strive being the best in the world, while I continue to play the games as just a regular means of entertainment, not a way of life. Posted by GeeseHoward on 05:07:2001 10:01 PM: I think an honorable way of playing is to just play, but when you start spouting insults, saying a player isn't good(even though he isn't) is just not honorable. But I just don't find it fun anymore. I'm not an expert or anything, but when someone says something like, man, is that the only thing you can do? Then I get upset. If it's winning the battle, why should I stop? But if it's not winning the battle, well, I might change tactics. I just don't like people that spit out the insults, it's just not fun. Ah well, there are other games in the arcade. peace! Posted by Rollchan on 05:07:2001 11:04 PM: You guys are all talking about theres no honor in giving your all and best in a match, using all of your firepower, such as traps and Spiral knives. But what about this guy I know at the arcade who picks iceman, does a few traps, and jumos around the whole game. Ive seen people actaully leave the match in anger and disbelief buecause they dont want to chase down this guy's jumping Iceman all over the map for 70 ticks. Of course some people beat him, but most say he has no honor at all. Or what about if you are playing at home and the friend you are playing against picks 2 Icemans? Posted by AKUMA2000 on 05:07:2001 11:27 PM: I don't play Mvsc2, but as in any fighting game there's no honor and nothing is cheap. On the battlefield i play to win because it's all about which warrior is left standing.... Posted by shin srwilson on 05:07:2001 11:29 PM: I totally agree AKUMA 2000. Posted by diegovaz on 05:08:2001 12:05 AM: Damn right Akuma Posted by SuperRob1 on 05:08:2001 03:31 AM: I must get my thoughts in on this, HONOR in a game....Hmmmmm! Its a fight to the finish. I mean if we had super powers would you hold back or would you use your optic blast to kill? I would I bram anything and everything. By whatever means nessacary is how you should play this game. So if your opponet can't get out of the typhoon trap guess his ass is grass, I ain't letting up. Cause if I do I may lose. Many of you remmeber marvel super heores, now in that game with 4 if you get a hit its game over cause of the infinite factor. However gets the first hit wins. I seen this at the first ECCC between Spiderdan and a guy from Virgina. There is no need for honor in game, NONE at all That's my 2 cents Posted by BabiG on 05:08:2001 04:00 AM: I argee with the distinction between tournament and friendly play. Tournament or tournament practice, sure anything (within the rules) goes...but when just playing for kicks, or against random strangers who aren't serious players I think you should play more forgivingly...experiment some. First of all...how are you gonna find new strategies if all you do is practice the same ones over and over? Second, not everyone has the same goals as you. Perhaps for them, winning isn't everything. I know if there was some game where the strategy to win was push jab over and over and over again, I would try other stuff just for the sake of not getting bored to death. In fact I tend to pick different characters each time I lose, just because. I'm just playing for fun, I wanna make sure the other guy/girl is having fun too...and its not fun getting caught in a trap that you don't know how to get out of for 90 seconds. Posted by jedirobb on 05:08:2001 04:29 AM: very well indeed.. = ) Posted by mondu_the_fat on 05:08:2001 04:48 AM: quote: Originally posted by Fenrir Some said that the way the game is now, you MUST be cheap and you MUST do traps and infinits and grind(chipblock) damage to even be able to keep up. I personally dont play like that... i dont like it... i CAN do them(albeit not all the time)... i CAN get out of traps and infintes. I dont do grind damage either. Its just not honorable to me. Its just i feel that with the shear amount of characters in the game y do people feel the need to use the same few people and the same few moves? Some say that most of the characters are useless and i kinda agree... but if you know what your doing then any character can whoopaw on anyone... Fenrir, I also play with honor in mind. Unfortunately, your definition of honor isn't honor at all. How is it dishonorable to use traps ? How is it dishonorable to use chip damage ? How is it dishonrable to use few characters with the same moves over and over ? These things are simply irritating, but hardly dishonorable. Bugs, on the other hand... Or doing anything physical against another player, or acting in a threatening manner, or being verbally abusive (although this is debatable). It seems to me that your definition of a dishonorable person is anyone who doesn't play the way you want them to. I mean nothing personal by saying this, man, but this has to be said: You're a scrub, and will never really know what it is to play the best you can until you change your attitude. Posted by Strider Hiryu on 05:08:2001 04:51 AM: I'm still waitin for him to tell me how he is the only person in the world that is able to mash out of IM infinite.. Posted by Kuroi Sabato on 05:08:2001 05:10 AM: Ummm... Would you hit your opponent while his back is turned? Don't tell me you attack your opponent in the arcades if the round began and he was hastily trying to put something in his pocket??? Seriously all this "the last warrior left standing" talk is stupid. I don't get it why most people here prefer to play unhonorably. We are humans and humans think what is right before they act. This is our main distinction over animals who act on instinct. And now tell me which is right: gunning your opponent at the back or facing him man to man. Which is the more humane way? You don't need to cheat to become good. I have always mastered my games with honor in my mind. A thing that my Tekken and SC master taught me. Backgrabbing in SC or TTT is a diff. thing though LOL! Posted by Ajora on 05:08:2001 05:22 AM: honor? whats that? Posted by Kuroi Sabato on 05:08:2001 05:36 AM: Another thought that struck me... If the Americans play dishonorably why do they lost to the Japs who prefers a clean game. Maybe the Americans tend to use cheap tactics over and over instead of developing new tactics and refining their techniques while the Japs do the the opposite. Not dissin' you American folks just a thought to think about. Posted by Dasrik on 05:08:2001 06:47 AM: quote: Originally posted by Kuroi Sabato Another thought that struck me... If the Americans play dishonorably why do they lost to the Japs who prefers a clean game. Maybe the Americans tend to use cheap tactics over and over instead of developing new tactics and refining their techniques while the Japs do the the opposite. Not dissin' you American folks just a thought to think about. Yet another case of someone not knowing what the fuck they're talking about. Japan is not the land of "no throws" - you're thinking of Hong Kong there, and when was the last time you heard of any special players coming from HK? Japanese simply have more arcades and practice on a more competitive level than Americans. In the USA, the predominant number of fighting game players play not to get a real strategy going or anything like that; they want to see "cool combos" and shit like that. Most of the time, when you see Vs. game competition that doesn't have anyone who actually knows what they're doing, it looks like a frigging combo exhibition. From what I've ascertained about Japanese players, they practice intensively and actually try to incorporate combos into a strategy, so they can pull it off under pressure. I don't recall anyone ever saying that you SHOULD hit people's Start buttons and punch them in the shoulder before the match starts. I only remember some little crybabies whining "Cable's no fun! Its too easy to win with fierce fierce viper beam hyper! Isn't it more fun to play with Captain America and Sabretooth and show off my l33t combos?" You can play with your retarded grade school buddies however which way you want, but when the first decent Cable player comes along, it separates the men from the boys - who continues to fight trying actually to figure out how to beat Cable, and who goes home whimpering "I HATE THAT CHEAP SHIT! WAAA!". If you're one of the latter, then my advice is this - stop whining like a little bitch and play something more appropriate to your thought level. Like Gauntlet Legends. Mashmashmashmashmash... Posted by ej_333 on 05:08:2001 07:08 AM: I am very honorable when I play video games. Before each match, I do my sumo stomp, right foot, left foot, then I bow deeply to my opponent. Then I throw flour into his eyes, kick him in the teeth, and whale on his start button so I can AHVB him to death. Some people call my tactics cheap, but oh well, they're just sore losers. Posted by rusbar on 05:08:2001 07:11 AM: all i can say is that it's no fun to play those top tier characters. jump shoot gernade viper beam jump laser photon array jump demons air dash demons rocket punch sentinal force rocket punch sentinal force typhoon typhoon typhoon lightning attack lightning attack ice beam ice beam ice beam i understand the whole play to win thing, but all that stuff gets borin after a while. i swear, i can pretty much tell what a cable/doom/blackheart team is gonna do. it gets boring after a while. and the whole honor thing, just as long as the game don't freeze or you don't do no gambit type glitches is fine by me. if you have to resort to using the juggy glitch to beat me, then it's fine by me, just realize that you use that those glitches/traps as a crutch. Posted by Defective on 05:08:2001 07:35 AM: Etiquette and Honor Wow! If wasn't life wasn't complicated enough here come the people who imposed their codes of ethics on a game they didn't even make. Yes! Nobel Peace Prizes for all! Seriously though, what gives you people the right to impose your way on others? Hell Capcom didn't even do it but you're trying to? Give me a break! Even if we wanted to whose to say your codes are right? What makes your rules better than anybody elses? The best attitude to have is let it be. If you're target practice for some scrub Cable, let it be. If you can't jump out of a lame-ass version of the Wall of Swords, let it be. Accept the fact that you can't change it and go on with your life. It's healthier that way. Or if you want make people obey your rules, buy the game or sponsor a tournament. If you have it at your house you can make all the crazy rules your want. If you run your own tourney you can have all the crazy rules you want. However, don't come to the arcade spouting this nonsense (most arcades are already sad as it is) and bother the people trying to do their thing. Arcade casual play should be anything goes. If worse comes to worse don't play (Gambit/Ruby nonsense). Ain't no use arguing and wanting to fight over a game. How come all of the "serious" players aren't doing all this bitching? If gaming ain't a big deal to you don't come to arcades or these message boards and complain. If you think like this gaming probably is a big deal to you just because you've put all this thought into it (they're just not healthy, constructive thoughts). Oh, and about experimentation I'll say this...necessity is the mother of invention. Most new things are found out of necessity and if the local comp ain't playing to their fullest potential experimentation will be lacking. Don't underestimate the dudes with the big win streaks because chances are they are the ones experimenting and especially adapting. Winning is a skill in itself and it never should be looked down upon. Posted by Psycho Soldier on 05:08:2001 03:05 PM: Re: Etiquette and Honor As I continue to look at the future WW3 veterans prime their battle skills, I start to think about another comment that made my skin crawl... who said that people who play "honorable" are trying to force their beliefs on you? My vision of "honorable" has nothing to do with the way my opponent plays or conducts him/herself, but it has everything to do on how I play myself. There's no possible way on finding out what type of person you're playing against, whether if they have that whole "guerilla warfare" attitude to kill anything that moves, or if they are the types that do whine about grabs, infinites, etc... So, instead of doing things that may cause conflict off of the screen, I conduct myself in a more cautious matter. If I grab, I'll ask if they want a grab back. If they say "no", then I know they're a player that has a "win by all means" attitude so I adjust my gameplay accordingly. If they take the grab, then I know they also try to play "honorable", so I respect their decisions. You guys seem to think that people who take extra steps to prevent physical confrontations to be idiots, yet you guys are also the same ones that also complain about "scurbs" that get upset with your tactics, then do glitches that freeze games in retaliation... HOW IRONIC! You tell them to "get better"... maybe they are trying to. Instead of beating them to a pulp and calling thema name, why not show them a thing or two. When it boils down to it, people want to play games against each other and maybe make a few friends in the process, and if you develop a negative attitude with gamers in your local arcade, pretty soon nobody will play against you... and we all know that AI sucks. I don't expect people to go the extra mile to make the gaming experience fun for everyone. At the same time, I still don't like it when people who play every game as if your life depended on it condone those who don't. Those who do are only showing their own insecurities, in fear that someone who actually can purposely handicap themselves in a game and STILL beat them. I would NEVER try to force my ideas on how to play a game on someone, nor would I call someone a "scrub" just because they do whatever it takes to win... the least thing YOU can do is respect those that don't play as aggressive as you! (Expecting more flames from the obvious folks that show traits of abuse from childhood...) Posted by Fenrir on 05:08:2001 03:22 PM: wow... all this time i was mistaken... ive talked to some of the people from my arcade and it seems that i havent been mashing out of it like i thought... it was their f*uck up... so i retract my previous statement... Psycho Soldier you hit my point right on the head... i never say you should only play like this or like that... i play to have fun... i play my way... and if someone comes and does an "i need to win" style of play i just how i played befor they came... if i lose then i adjust my stratagy... but i always play my way: with honor it doesnt matter if you like it or not... after all you have your ways and i have mine... i feel that mine are right for me... if you feel yours are right for you then go ahead... its only a game for sakes... Posted by jedirobb on 05:08:2001 03:26 PM: sigh = ) Posted by Fenrir on 05:08:2001 03:30 PM: hahaha... im a man, i admit to my mistakes... ass... haha... Posted by ej_333 on 05:08:2001 03:44 PM: Re: Re: Etiquette and Honor quote: Originally posted by Psycho Soldier who said that people who play "honorable" are trying to force their beliefs on you? [snip] You guys seem to think that people who take extra steps to prevent physical confrontations to be idiots, yet you guys are also the same ones that also complain about "scurbs" that get upset with your tactics, then do glitches that freeze games in retaliation... HOW IRONIC! [snip] You tell them to "get better"... maybe they are trying to. Instead of beating them to a pulp and calling thema name, why not show them a thing or two... About forcing beliefs thing: Well, I dunno, the majority of people who play "honorable" and lose, I think they tend to bitch and complain a lot about cheapness. They may not be directly asking me to change my style, but the fact that they dont like my style, it's obvious they'd prefer me to play THEIR way, not MY way. ANd btw, I know all "honorable" players don't lose, but in my experience, they're just limiting themselves when they refuse to do certain things. And in my experience, scrubs (people who lose and whine) are the ones who want to get into fights, not the other way around. And if the guy is a good sport about losing, i have no problems being friendly with that guy. I'm a pretty nice guy, I'd give tips to anyone who's reasonable. I dont like other people who like to rub it in on people they beat, that's pretty low. Well, unless the person beat some whiney trashtalker, then I wouldnt care if they rub it in on the trashtalker afterwards. EDIT: About mashing out of ironman's infinite, lol, what the heck is that?! Hmm, I knew a guy who would shake the game machine if he got caught in an infinite, so that his opponent would mess up, hehe. Posted by Fenrir on 05:08:2001 03:48 PM: haha... that would be so funny to see... Posted by JedahZero on 05:08:2001 04:11 PM: Just figure I'd post my 2 cents about all this. I play with what I believe is "honor". And I do it because that is the way which I have the most fun. I've tried traps and all that jazz, but to me, it really is just no fun, and as such, I've given up on MvC2. But my point is that it's not technically a matter of honor, it's a matter of what you have FUN doing. It is a game after all. If you get your jollies from doing typhoons all day, then by all means, typhoon away. As for people who say that winning is fun (i.e. play to win, phrased it this way since I refuse to believe no one would play the game if they weren't having fun) I don't see how, and I don't get it. Doing the same thing over and over again just because it works seems kinda boring to me, but if that one moment at the end of the match when it says "you win" and your 50 cents are more important to you than the 99 seconds beforehand, then keep on trappin'. Peace Posted by Mader on 05:08:2001 04:28 PM: Remember the alpha3 trow glitch with karin and vega ? Well If you don't, i'l tell you. The trow does 99% damage. The Guy that uses that glitch has no honor, you can't say anything to that! just play the game and don't activate the glitch, and play like a man. This is not chipping or ahvb , this is when people abuse the game (even more so than ahvb)... Like that gambit glitch, Ever seen a guy wining at MvC2 30 game in a row with that glitch, well if you did that guy would probly got beat up for it. This is what dishonor is, cheap tricks. Ryu would never pick up a machine gun an shooting sagat,, why would you (not to be taking literally)? Posted by Psycho Soldier on 05:08:2001 05:24 PM: Re: Re: Re: Etiquette and Honor quote: Originally posted by ej_333 About forcing beliefs thing: Well, I dunno, the majority of people who play "honorable" and lose, I think they tend to bitch and complain a lot about cheapness. They may not be directly asking me to change my style, but the fact that they dont like my style, it's obvious they'd prefer me to play THEIR way, not MY way. ANd btw, I know all "honorable" players don't lose, but in my experience, they're just limiting themselves when they refuse to do certain things. That's why I play the way that I do... I may win one game playing my way, but if they continue and tell me to not play with grabs or infinites and then I STILL beat them, then I beat them on their terms. Then, there's nothing else that they can say. Playing the way that I do, I know that I would get crunched in tourney settings. But at least I do wind up gaining respect from those that I do play against, regardless of winning or losing. quote: And if the guy is a good sport about losing, i have no problems being friendly with that guy. I'm a pretty nice guy, I'd give tips to anyone who's reasonable. I dont like other people who like to rub it in on people they beat, that's pretty low. Well, unless the person beat some whiney trashtalker, then I wouldnt care if they rub it in on the trashtalker afterwards. I remember the last time I was playing against these two different people in CvS in a bowling alley in Boston. They were good, but they weren't doing too well against me. After about 5 or 6 wins, I actually started to show them some things so that they could get better and in the process force me to expand my way of thinking. After a few more rounds, they started to defeat me, which made the gaming experience even better. Now, they knew tactics that could make them more effective, and in the process I can now play against more players that would push me further in my abilities. I could just sit there and just continue to beat them, but what good would that have done? I not only made a positive experience for others, but I also gained a couple of gaming buddies as well. Of course, those who are egotistical and trash talk get no respect from me, so I will usually return the favor. No need to brag about your success, for what you can do there is an equal amount of things you can't do. And all it takes is for someone to step up and remind you of that... Posted by O.Ryoga on 05:08:2001 05:44 PM: Wahahahaaaa!!!! This discussion won't get anywhere. Wonder why Psycho Soldier and Sabato Kuroi didn't give up yet. You're MvsC2 for crying out loud, they don't know what you're talking about!!! If they at least were SF3:3S (or better KoF) players they would get what you're talking about. Oh, and to the guy that has such a big knowledge about japanese players (Dasrik): You should try to get out of your country, you don't even have a slight idea of how things are outside the US. Japan players have an unspoken code of honor. As an example: In KoF2K they never make 100% combos, they rarely follow the striker attack with more than two hits (sometimes they follow it with a DM). Guess that they found out that it's so easy to do 100% or infinites in KoF2K that they decided to leave that kind of crap outside and enjoy the game (and they still win). Posted by Psycho Soldier on 05:08:2001 05:52 PM: quote: Originally posted by O.Ryoga Wahahahaaaa!!!! This discussion won't get anywhere. Wonder why Psycho Soldier and Sabato Kuroi didn't give up yet. You're MvsC2 for crying out loud, they don't know what you're talking about!!! If they at least were SF3:3S (or better KoF) players they would get what you're talking about. Silly Ryoga... Most people in the forum were talking about the whole honor and ethics thing in general, not in any particular game. But it's true, most of the people here who are defending the whole "win at all costs" philosophy are MvC2 fans. So shoot me... the day job gets boring sometimes! Posted by Hentai on 05:08:2001 06:16 PM: quote: Originally posted by Kuroi Sabato Ummm... Would you hit your opponent while his back is turned? Don't tell me you attack your opponent in the arcades if the round began and he was hastily trying to put something in his pocket??? Seriously all this "the last warrior left standing" talk is stupid. I don't get it why most people here prefer to play unhonorably. We are humans and humans think what is right before they act. This is our main distinction over animals who act on instinct. And now tell me which is right: gunning your opponent at the back or facing him man to man. Which is the more humane way? You don't need to cheat to become good. I have always mastered my games with honor in my mind. A thing that my Tekken and SC master taught me. Backgrabbing in SC or TTT is a diff. thing though LOL! you have caught on to this whole "its a video game" thing right? your master? what do you go to some tekken dojo somewhere? what the hell is this? its a game for christs sake, its like bitching that bowzer is too hard in mario brothers, its a GAME. i really hate to break this to you guys but, your not samuri, nor will you ever be, you (much like myself) are a nerd, who plays video games, in arcades. very simple concept, also someone said that this honor system bullshit prevents confrontation? uh what fucking planet do you live on, the people starting trouble are the bitchy whiners who try to pick fights with people for "playing cheap" look its simple, if you dont like people ahvbx3'ing you all day, if you dont like the IM infinite, if you dont like blackheart raining shit down on you all day, sprials wall of swords, run away storms or anything im forgetting then the answer is simple, dont play MVC2, or atleast if you do, go to some scrub mall where you can fight other scrubs like yourself. oh and make sure to tell them about your honor and all that too, im sure they will be impressed. Posted by O.Ryoga on 05:08:2001 07:18 PM: quote: Originally posted by Psycho Soldier Silly Ryoga... Most people in the forum were talking about the whole honor and ethics thing in general, not in any particular game. But it's true, most of the people here who are defending the whole "win at all costs" philosophy are MvC2 fans. So shoot me... the day job gets boring sometimes! I know it gets boring, that's why I replied (and couldn't move on without throwing a shot to MvsC2 players) BTW, what is that crap of being nerds that Hentai is talking about? What do you people consider being a "nerd"? Posted by Tuff Daddy on 05:08:2001 07:25 PM: What is honor exactly? I haven't heard a solid definition yet. In a game like MVC2 there is no honorable play(aside from glitches) at all. So you don't like it when your opponent abuses the Black Heart assist, rush him down. So think the IM infinite is dishonorable, don't get caught in it. You think traps are not "honorable", let yourself out of the damn trap!!! Aaaaaaaaaaa! No trap is full proof. The best players in the country will tell you that. If your opponent is trapping you, running away with Storm, or AHVB'ing your @ss to death, he/she obviously has more of a drive to win the match. Boo hoo "thats cheap", boo hoo "traps aren't fair", boo hoo "I want my mommy". Ask yourself this: "Am I losing because I am trying to play with honor, or am I losing because my will to win is lesser than that of my opponent?" If your will to win is not equal to than of your opponent, take my advice, stop playing the damn game!!! Such is the nature of MVC2. CvS however is another issuse. More on that when I get a good definition of "honor" in a fighting game. Posted by Dasrik on 05:08:2001 07:37 PM: OK, some comments on various things. Firstly, to Psycho Soldier... if you feel like you're in threat of bodily harm, then yes, you should consider that he might be an idiot who'd kick your ass if he loses to "cheap shit". It's stupid, but it's something you have to do - survival instincts and whatnot. Other than that, I suppose I can go with what you have said (having a brother that feels the same way)... but I feel that lumping everyone who disagrees with "no traps" into a "MvC2 lovers" is rather shortsighted, because there are people who will complain similarly about CvS (nakoruru and rolls), 3s (parries, throws, et al.), and even right down to HF and ST (fireball traps are cheap! no escape! blah blah) O.Ryoga... your examples are all in idiotic SNK games, so they don't apply. (And yes, I insulted your precious SNK. The last good game they made was arguably even KOF98. Period.) Crouch cancel infinites in A3 and MvC1 are A-OK in Japan and even encouraged, so please die now, you blonde-haired Spaniard. Posted by Kamui on 05:08:2001 08:00 PM: Re: Re: Re: Re: Etiquette and Honor I do understand why you play the way you do, you like to avoid confrontations and keep things friendly whicb is great and i have a lot of respect for you becuase of it. But, fact is we are playing fighters, naturally competetive games, people are going to get angry with each other whether you try to keep the piece or not. Even if someone isnt openly showing it, there getting angry at there lose. Its sad but its the human thing to do. "That's why I play the way that I do... I may win one game playing my way, but if they continue and tell me to not play with grabs or infinites and then I STILL beat them, then I beat them on their terms. Then, there's nothing else that they can say. Playing the way that I do, I know that I would get crunched in tourney settings. But at least I do wind up gaining respect from those that I do play against, regardless of winning or losing." What kind of respect are you gaining from them? Your limiting yourself gameplay wise so that they have an easier chance of beating you. It may keep the emotions at a minimum, and i understand that, but its very insulting in MY eyes to my own ego. I still see why you do it, but just remember that when you beat them even on there level with whatever restrictions they have set for you, they are still angry for there loss, very much so, and the only reason there not openingly whining is becuase youve taken away everything for them to whine about by playing on "there level". Sooner or later there gonna crack from the losses and find something to whine about, becuase its not about skill, its not about making friends(at first, making friends comes after taking those loses and giving them out, thats when a mutual respect is gained and then friendship starts), when you first step up to the plate its about beating the other person, becuase thats the first thing that will cross you and your opponents mind, wanting to win... Still, I dont think i can change your mind, and i do repect your position as it is good willed, but remember who your dealing with when your against your opponent, its a human bieng, and competetion leads to aggression and an ego. Posted by O.Ryoga on 05:08:2001 08:46 PM: quote: Originally posted by Dasrik O.Ryoga... your examples are all in idiotic SNK games, so they don't apply. (And yes, I insulted your precious SNK. The last good game they made was arguably even KOF98. Period.) Whaaaaat???? Blasphemy!!! In a more serious note, I think their last good 2D fighter was Garou MoTW). quote: Originally posted by Dasrik Crouch cancel infinites in A3 and MvC1 are A-OK in Japan and even encouraged, so please die now, you blonde-haired Spaniard. Errrmmm, ImMature was the Spaniard. Posted by Psycho Soldier on 05:08:2001 09:39 PM: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Etiquette and Honor quote: Originally posted by Kamui What kind of respect are you gaining from them? Your limiting yourself gameplay wise so that they have an easier chance of beating you. It's an old way of thinking I suppose... One person thinks they wouldn't get beaten if they didn't use tactic A or B. They join in again and challenge you to beat them with their supposed "stipulation". You in turn, beat them at their own rules. They may go away angry, but it's now more towards embarassment that you were able to defeat them even by stooping to their more inferior gameplay level. Then again, they may not go away angry and actually shake your hand for showing them that it really isn't the tactics that they found "cheap", but it's really their skills. Someone did this to me way back in the days of SF1, and it has been something that I've taken so since those days. And I don't necessarily think that limiting yourself will prevent you from learning new things or getting better. For instance, one time I joked about a "Slaughter The Servbot" Tournament in MvC2, where each person MUST have Servbot on their team and must not let him die at ANYTIME during the match. In a situation like this, a lot of the three-person tactics of the game may get lost, but in turn some people may either find excellent ways to use Servbot, or come up with some brilliant two-person strategies that will eventually help them in the game, with or withourt "crazy rules". Of course, I don't expect anyone out there to actually do this (although if I owned my own arcade I'd probably do it just for kicks), but you can see how something like this could help people learn how to do certain aspects of the game better. If a person told me "not to grab", then I focus my energy on high damaging combos (which is something I like to do anyhow)... it's very rare that I play a game to use inifnites against my opponents, so I never get comments about that. quote: It may keep the emotions at a minimum, and i understand that, but its very insulting in MY eyes to my own ego. I still see why you do it, but just remember that when you beat them even on there level with whatever restrictions they have set for you, they are still angry for there loss, very much so, and the only reason there not openingly whining is becuase youve taken away everything for them to whine about by playing on "there level". Well Kaumi, I can sense that you're a player that likes their opponents to go all out on the battlefield, so if I ever played against you I would do just that. By taking away the things an unskilled player would complain about when losing, you make them realize that it really is their skills that need to be worked on, and they in turn work harder. As long as they have that "excuse", most will not try to further their skillset since their beliefs will lead them not to learn the techniques that they find "cheap" in order to compete. Instead, they will continue to use their "excuse" in future battles when someone else with skills better than them play them and beat them. It's a twisted way to teach someone how to play the game, but for me it works. quote: Still, I dont think i can change your mind, and i do repect your position as it is good willed, but remember who your dealing with when your against your opponent, its a human bieng, and competetion leads to aggression and an ego. And unlike strong willed people like yourself, I do know that egos to a majority of gamers are quite fragile. I dunno... I guess I'm just a little too compassionate sometimes. Then again, I'm also silly enough to put Sakura/BB Hood against Doom/Strider... Posted by Zazzarius on 05:08:2001 09:42 PM: now, dishonorable stuff is using the gambit or ruby heart glitch to ruin someone's day using IM infinite, ahvb, or traps require ATLEAST some skill, if you put in the effort of practicing these techniques you should atleast use them when to use them is nothing matter entirely and what's wrong with Gauntlet Legends?!! Its a fun game. "Blue Warrior Needs Food!!" Posted by Dasrik on 05:08:2001 10:41 PM: O.Ryoga... where are the flames man?... In all seriousness, I thought you were from Spain too. Garou was okay, I guess. And I actually get insulted if someone doesn't play me to their fullest capacity. Toying with someone doesn't just prolong the inevitable, it also tells your opponent they're not good enough for a REAL matchup. Testing new strategies is all well and good, but taunting 5235326324 times during a match is downright cocky. Posted by ej_333 on 05:08:2001 10:49 PM: Re: Re: Re: Re: Etiquette and Honor quote: Originally posted by Psycho Soldier That's why I play the way that I do... I may win one game playing my way, but if they continue and tell me to not play with grabs or infinites and then I STILL beat them, then I beat them on their terms. Then, there's nothing else that they can say. Playing the way that I do, I know that I would get crunched in tourney settings. But at least I do wind up gaining respect from those that I do play against, regardless of winning or losing. Hey, whatever floats your boat. And yeah, I know it's possible to shut people up by beating them at their own game. But still, I'd rather just play my own way and hone my own strats without worrying about limiting myself, or whatever. I like to enter tourneys, so I try to practice my strategies whenever I get the chance to play. And if someone gets in my way while I'm practicing and loses all the time to me, it's too bad for them. And unless I'm playing a friend who is obviously worse than I am, I usually don't take it easy on opponents. I usually get into bad habits if I take it easy too much. I remember the last time I was playing against these two different people in CvS in a bowling alley in Boston. They were good, but they weren't doing too well against me. After about 5 or 6 wins, I actually started to show them some things so that they could get better and in the process force me to expand my way of thinking. After a few more rounds, they started to defeat me, which made the gaming experience even better. Now, they knew tactics that could make them more effective, and in the process I can now play against more players that would push me further in my abilities. I could just sit there and just continue to beat them, but what good would that have done? I not only made a positive experience for others, but I also gained a couple of gaming buddies as well. Hey, like i said, I'm beating a guy who isn't pissy or whiney, I'm certainly willing to help a guy out. I mean, if a guy asks or comments to me, "Man, how do I beat that?", I'll try to suggest something helpful, I'm not going to say, "You CAN'T beat it, you insufferable loser, I am INVINCIBLE!!!" But then again, hehe, I'm usually the one who's saying "HEYYYYY, HOW DO I BEAT YOUR STRAT?!" Posted by bluemace on 05:09:2001 06:27 AM: I can't play any game with honor because I am accused of being cheap at home when I do long combos, so I just play as smart as possible in MvsC2, so I use anti-air assists to beat the crap out of people that like doing combos! Its sad snapping back an opponent when they call a helper and just perform launchers on it till it dies. They say that is cheap too, but I think everyone has their own rules for what the meaning of "fair" is so I just play the game using the "tournament" mindset. After the redizzies in SF2, I say almost anything goes when playing a fighting game ( except Gambit glitch...its almost like the stupid handcuff glitch in SF2 ). ~bluemace Posted by DeathFromAbove on 05:09:2001 07:41 AM: Goddamn people...why make this so complicated? If you're practicing and you come up against some scrub, just tell him exactly how to get out of the trap. Then just keep doing the trap until he gets the hang of escaping. That way you'll get better practice anyway. If he's complaining about your combos, or about your throws/pressure game, show him how to use a AAA, or do a wake-up dragon punch, or perform a backstep, or how to tech hit, blah, blah, blah, etc. Raise the competition's level, and you will also get better. Exception: If it's for money, then, just do whatever. -DFA Posted by Demroth on 05:09:2001 07:55 AM: To start, the only thing that bugs me is game braking gliches. Anything els I have no prop with. I mostly play at the springfield tilt. And for the most part everyone knows most of the people that play there. And I would say we play with honor and kick ass combos. You would not see to many traps or infinats. Then most of the good player started playing in turnys. And we could do OK but in most cases we would get stomped by the Portland crew. We found that we had no practice to get out of traps or any other "cheep" moves. I felt we played with "honor", but realy we just limited ourself and what we would or could do. Since then most of us have changed our team or tacktics. I think we are better players for it. It took about three turnys for the change to come and we have not yet tride our new style or tacktics in a turny yet, but when we do I feel we will do much better. All the old stuff we use to see as "cheep" we now know how to counter. Making it not so "cheep" anymore. My point is as long as you just see anything as cheep (aside from game braking gliches, taping the opps start button, or kicking the chalenger in the groin.) you will tend to play it less, know it less, and get schooled by it more. Posted by Desert Sky Mngr on 05:09:2001 01:39 PM: Hello some of you may know me .. but I've been playing V games along time(26yrs).. and it seems sad to me ppl don't know what honor is... HONOR IS HONOR !!!to respect your opp. and his skill level.. not to imply that you should ever throw a match but if you see someone who is making a small mistake ..point it out to them .. use your EXP to help teach them what's up.. you cant tell me its fun to rape a newbie and send him home frustrated .. that to me is dishonorable .. using glitches to win (gambit) is lame and you only dis your self( the term DIS is short for disrespect) and if you practicing for B5 then you are NOT getting better crushing someone. The Japanese will not be soft so A LION IS NOT FEARED BECAUSE IT SLAUGHTERS A LAMB it is respected for its power. be kind to your OPP. kill him but help him as well!! ............DSM Posted by Desert Sky Mngr on 05:09:2001 01:54 PM: BTW I get creamed a lot on that game as I'm still learning it . but this whole B5 thing and the practicing thing locks up the vid game and its impossible to practice anything vs infinites and traps . I see GOOD players all the time who do this ( that's ok ) and I've seen great players drop out of the game because the game doesn't seem to be about fun .. it seems to be about winning.. friendly competition is ok but some ppl don't see that or even recognize the need to respect anything/anyone... If your in practice for B5 then god bless( I cant wait for it to be over with) but remember if you crush too many ppl you will stand alone playing the COMP .. as the crowd waits for you to leave so the rest of us crappy/just learning ppl can actually move and do damage.......... DSM Posted by Kuroi Sabato on 05:09:2001 02:49 PM: quote: Originally posted by Hentai you have caught on to this whole "its a video game" thing right? your master? what do you go to some tekken dojo somewhere? what the hell is this? its a game for christs sake, its like bitching that bowzer is too hard in mario brothers, its a GAME. i really hate to break this to you guys but, your not samuri, nor will you ever be, you (much like myself) are a nerd, who plays video games, in arcades. very simple concept, also someone said that this honor system bullshit prevents confrontation? uh what fucking planet do you live on, the people starting trouble are the bitchy whiners who try to pick fights with people for "playing cheap" look its simple, if you dont like people ahvbx3'ing you all day, if you dont like the IM infinite, if you dont like blackheart raining shit down on you all day, sprials wall of swords, run away storms or anything im forgetting then the answer is simple, dont play MVC2, or atleast if you do, go to some scrub mall where you can fight other scrubs like yourself. oh and make sure to tell them about your honor and all that too, im sure they will be impressed. Exactly! It's a game! So why cheat? And one more thing. I notice that you use this equation: honorable player=loser or scrub. Why is that? I am an honorable player and I win majority of my fights and I'm damn proud of it! At least I win with pure skill rather than doing Clark-Joe infinites all day! An honorable player is much diff. than a whiney loser. Ah!!! Too much KOF recently gotta go back to SC. Later! Posted by O.Ryoga on 05:09:2001 03:03 PM: quote: Originally posted by Dasrik O.Ryoga... where are the flames man?... In all seriousness, I thought you were from Spain too. Garou was okay, I guess. Duh!!! I couldn't think of any flame that's not too overused or extremely cheap. quote: Originally posted by Dasrik And I actually get insulted if someone doesn't play me to their fullest capacity. Toying with someone doesn't just prolong the inevitable, it also tells your opponent they're not good enough for a REAL matchup. Testing new strategies is all well and good, but taunting 5235326324 times during a match is downright cocky. Well, taunting irks the opponent more than an infinite. I won't post any opinion here, I know where most people come from and where they're heading to as well. Posted by Hentai on 05:09:2001 08:58 PM: quote: Originally posted by Kuroi Sabato Exactly! It's a game! So why cheat? And one more thing. I notice that you use this equation: honorable player=loser or scrub. Why is that? I am an honorable player and I win majority of my fights and I'm damn proud of it! At least I win with pure skill rather than doing Clark-Joe infinites all day! An honorable player is much diff. than a whiney loser. Ah!!! Too much KOF recently gotta go back to SC. Later! but your not cheating, if you beat someone with an infinite or something like that HATE TO BREAK IT TO YOU but its part of the game, if you dont like that aspect of the game then dont play it. Posted by Kuroi Sabato on 05:10:2001 01:10 AM: quote: Originally posted by Hentai but your not cheating, if you beat someone with an infinite or something like that HATE TO BREAK IT TO YOU but its part of the game, if you dont like that aspect of the game then dont play it. Ohoho!!! Infinite is not cheap!!! It's "part of the game" let's all use it!!! Hentai what's next? Gonna give me that crap argument: "You don't want to get killed by an infinite don't get hit by it!!!" How smart!!! Do you think that the programmers themselves incorporated these infinites into the game smartguy? These infinites are minor glitches in programming! What am I saying??? They are major glitches which experts abuse. Experts? Heh! More like scrub masters to me! Well anyways these scrub masters say it's part of the game and abuse it to make themselves look good where in fact they couldn't win without it!!! Think before you post scrub master! Posted by Hentai on 05:10:2001 01:15 AM: quote: Originally posted by Kuroi Sabato Ohoho!!! Infinite is not cheap!!! It's "part of the game" let's all use it!!! Hentai what's next? Gonna give me that crap argument: "You don't want to get killed by an infinite don't get hit by it!!!" How smart!!! Do you think that the programmers themselves incorporated these infinites into the game smartguy? These infinites are minor glitches in programming! What am I saying??? They are major glitches which experts abuse. Experts? Heh! More like scrub masters to me! Well anyways these scrub masters say it's part of the game and abuse it to make themselves look good where in fact they couldn't win without it!!! Think before you post scrub master! no, jackass what im saying is its become such a part of MVC2 that if you DONT do them you CANT play and you bitching and whining wont change that so fucking get used to it. and if your getting infinites blown on you all the time, you suck. Posted by Flaron on 05:10:2001 02:03 AM: blahblahblahblahblah I'm sick of this honor and playing for fun and not playing to win shit. Not playing to win sounds so fucking stupid. It's a fucking fighting game, 1 on 1, someone's suppose to win. If you don't win then you lose which is not fun unless you had a good match or something fun happened. If you don't want to play to win then play Tetris or some easy ass game. I'm so glad I go to an arcade where people don't whine. Losers always whine about honor. Winners go home and fuck the prom queen. Posted by Psycho Soldier on 05:10:2001 02:35 AM: quote: Originally posted by Flaron I'm sick of this honor and playing for fun and not playing to win shit. Not playing to win sounds so fucking stupid. It's a fucking fighting game, 1 on 1, someone's suppose to win. If you don't win then you lose which is not fun unless you had a good match or something fun happened. If you don't want to play to win then play Tetris or some easy ass game. I'm so glad I go to an arcade where people don't whine. Losers always whine about honor. Winners go home and fuck the prom queen. Lemme guess... You're REALLY, REALLY YOUNG, aren't ya? Otherwise, I would have actually thought this post actually had some sort of substance to it. Beyond the whole thing about "honor", it's also about respect for others and their opinions. You obviously have neither of both... Posted by Akuma2002 on 05:10:2001 02:58 AM: there`s no honnor in videogames you do what you have to to win infintes are apart of the game and in MvC2`s case so is chipping the only thing i have a problem with are gambit type glithes other than that there is no dis honnor in videogames (this is just my opinon) Posted by State of Nature on 05:10:2001 03:12 AM: quote: Originally posted by Hentai i really hate to break this to you guys but, your not samuri, nor will you ever be. Great. Now you made me cry. Seriously, i think a lot of the controversy here stems from the word "honor." If something is "honorable," then by exclusion everything else is "dishonorable." By using the word "honor" in a gaming discussion, you are introducing value judgments, which naturally makes everybody defensive. It's been said already, but it stands to be said again: play anyway you like, and if you lose, who cares. The point of playing is to have fun, so play whichever way gives you the most pleasure, and don't judge other people's playing style. PS-the only positive thing in this thread so far has been that Fenrir learned that you can't mash out of infinites. So at least one guy got better. Posted by Flaron on 05:10:2001 03:21 AM: quote: Originally posted by Psycho Soldier Lemme guess... You're REALLY, REALLY YOUNG, aren't ya? Otherwise, I would have actually thought this post actually had some sort of substance to it. Beyond the whole thing about "honor", it's also about respect for others and their opinions. You obviously have neither of both... Hey, I respect peoples opinions. I just hate it when people say they play the game for fun and not for winning. It's like a lame excuse for losing. Posted by Demroth on 05:10:2001 03:23 AM: quote: Originally posted by Desert Sky Mngr BTW I get creamed a lot on that game as I'm still learning it . but this whole B5 thing and the practicing thing locks up the vid game and its impossible to practice anything vs infinites and traps Everyone that's a scrub raise your hand. *Looks at Sky* You CAN practice against traps and infinites. There are ways to get out of traps. It just takes good timing and the right moves. With infinites you can learn the set-ups for the infinites. If you can learn to avoid the set-up, you can avoid the infinite all together. Posted by Kuroi Sabato on 05:10:2001 04:39 AM: One more funny thing I noticed ,when ppl like hentai defend their point, is that they always use MVC2 as the game of reference. We are talking about games here in general! Are you implying that you MVC2 players are all so dishonorable and MVC2 is like a cheater's game? Why look at KOF2000! Yes it has infinites and all that crap but ever wonder why ppl don't use those shit(except for some bastards I know)? Because ppl know it is no fun at all losing to an infinite combo! You say winning is fun and so why is that winning with the gambit glitch is no fun at all??? The gambit glitch is after all a glitch like the infinite combos. So it all turns out that you yourselves follow a certain code of honor that favors you. Isn't that a bit contradictory? Winning isn't the source of fun in fighting games it's how the fight was done! Don't tell me it's more fun winning by throwing fireballs, doing infinites, and glitches all day than outsmarting your opponent into blasting his player and assist with a MegaOpticBlast. By playing without infinites/glitches the loser will also have a share of the fun and playing in an arcade with this attitude spawns friends. Notice that I didn't include traps. Well it's because I think traps were meant to be in the game unlike infinites/glitches. Well later guys!!! Posted by Akuma2002 on 05:10:2001 04:54 AM: glitches arn`t meant to be in the game thats why it`s called a glitch as for infinites im not sure but i don`t think they were meant to be in the game there in there because of the way certian hits hit and people just keep playing around untill they find these awkard hits and then they just find the right situation to keep repeating there hits Posted by Psycho Soldier on 05:10:2001 05:07 AM: quote: Originally posted by Flaron Hey, I respect peoples opinions. I just hate it when people say they play the game for fun and not for winning. It's like a lame excuse for losing. Well, surprise... there are people who just play video games for fun... and SURPRISE AGAIN. Some of them beat you when you play against them. Grant it, using it as an "excuse" not to play your best is bad... but if someone places in their 50 cents just to waste time for a few minutes, then why should they be made fun because of it? Maybe they're not looking for "world domination" in an arcade game... doesn't make them any less of a loser than the person who trains everyday for the next tournament and occasionally loses. Just take it easy... it's a game. Let people play it the way they want to play it, and let them believe what they want about them. No one side is more "wrong" than the other... Posted by Kamui on 05:10:2001 05:26 AM: "Grant it, using it as an "excuse" not to play your best is bad... but if someone places in their 50 cents just to waste time for a few minutes, then why should they be made fun because of it" The people who play to waste time for a few minutes do not post on this board, if they did they wouldnt be playing just for fun. The people that play for a few minutes just to waste time are also people that wont be whining about honor or cheese. I really dont like the group of people that say "oh i just play for fun" when there the same person thats writing a fanfic for the corrisponding game and hangs out at a fighting game dedicated site 24/7, they must take the game some what seriously to do so. These kind of people are also known as liars that are trying to make themselves look less fanboy-ish. It should also be mentioned that a person that does only play for "fun"(again, this is just an excuse for losing, if they were playing for just pure fun they wouldnt be posting here)will also suck at the game, and would be in no position to talk about what he thinks is honorable. There are about a thousand of example of these type of people floating around these very boards, however i will not name names... Posted by ImMature on 05:10:2001 05:33 AM: *Sigh* Kamui are you using your powers again? Posted by Hentai on 05:10:2001 05:34 AM: quote: Originally posted by Kuroi Sabato One more funny thing I noticed ,when ppl like hentai defend their point, is that they always use MVC2 as the game of reference. We are talking about games here in general! Are you implying that you MVC2 players are all so dishonorable and MVC2 is like a cheater's game? Why look at KOF2000! Yes it has infinites and all that crap but ever wonder why ppl don't use those shit(except for some bastards I know)? Because ppl know it is no fun at all losing to an infinite combo! You say winning is fun and so why is that winning with the gambit glitch is no fun at all??? The gambit glitch is after all a glitch like the infinite combos. So it all turns out that you yourselves follow a certain code of honor that favors you. Isn't that a bit contradictory? Winning isn't the source of fun in fighting games it's how the fight was done! Don't tell me it's more fun winning by throwing fireballs, doing infinites, and glitches all day than outsmarting your opponent into blasting his player and assist with a MegaOpticBlast. By playing without infinites/glitches the loser will also have a share of the fun and playing in an arcade with this attitude spawns friends. Notice that I didn't include traps. Well it's because I think traps were meant to be in the game unlike infinites/glitches. Well later guys!!! Well, I talk about mvc2 because that’s what I thought we were talking about... so in 3s, Kara-Cancel is opposed to this since of honor of yours? I bet throws in all are. When you play WW/CE/HF do you think combos are cheap? Because they were a glitch, not intended by the programmers. oh and as for KOF2000, i can't really comment since the amount of people in the US who play it is so small. Posted by Kamui on 05:10:2001 05:41 AM: Oh boy here we go...... People who play for "fun" are not good at the game. It is an excuse. Everyone starts out playing for fun, and thats great, you should have fun, but many find other rewarding connections. If someone is posting on this very site about strategies, tactics, ways too win, combos, fanfics, WHATEVER, they are more serious about the game then they lead you to believe. People who play just for fun(again, your sapposed to have fun, but there are other factors as to why a person keeps playing) wouldnt worry about comming to these very sites. Its an excuse. Never in my life have i ever played a person who didnt take a fighter seriously and lost to them, it deosnt happen, becuase they are simply not playing to be good at the game, there playing to have fun, and that means they suck and there opinion on honor means jack shit to me(and this is comming from someone who isnt all that great of a player in the first place). Speaking of KOF2K, i know players that deal with Iori+Joe Striker infinites everyday and it deosnt even phase them. In the words of my good friend DDRGakusei "you pick Seth or A.Iori and turtle like crazy, you win". The people that are complaining about those infinites are the people that are losing to them. Oh and bTW, despite what you believe, winning with infinite or a fireball(cant believe you even said that) is very fun, especially when you see the frustrated look on your opponents face. Your deffinition of fun includes ways of making it easier for you to beat people(by limiting what they can do), thus limiting yourself. Something like possible infinite set ups teaches you to be more carefull about your gameplan to avoid gettting nailed by it, this improves your gameplay, it deosnt destroy it or make things less fun. Posted by Kamui on 05:10:2001 05:42 AM: Where did i ever say i was reading anyones mind(oh but watch out, i could at any momment!!!! :P )? People who play for "fun" are exactly what i described them to be... quote: Originally posted by ImMature *Sigh* Kamui are you using your powers again? Posted by Demroth on 05:10:2001 06:16 AM: quote: Originally posted by Kuroi Sabato Don't tell me it's more fun winning by throwing fireballs, doing infinites, and glitches all day than outsmarting your opponent into blasting his player and assist with a MegaOpticBlast. By playing without infinites/glitches the loser will also have a share of the fun and playing in an arcade with this attitude spawns friends. 1: What's wrong with fireballs? 2: It sounds like you lose a lot. 3: Infinites are part of the game. Capcom knew the game would have them when they put it out. That's one of the reasons that, the damage dealt will go down as the number of hits go up. If infinites where not part of the game why bother programing it to make the char spin out after 45 (or so) hits. You would not need this if there where no infinites. The fact that, that net is in the game shows that Capcom knew you would be able to link hits to at lest 45 hits. 4: Infinites are not a glitch, but an award for the players that take the time to learn them and to further study the combo system. Posted by Demroth on 05:10:2001 06:30 AM: Kamui, I totally agree. The people that post here play to win. They have fun playing and winning. The people that post of something being cheep are the same people that cant get around it. Everything in the game is part of the game. Deal with it. If you don't like it, play at home. Where as its not nice to stomp a scrub in 2 seconds flat. (but kind of fun though) It is not dishonorable to play your best all the time, even if you are just against a scrub. Posted by EndLeSS8 on 05:10:2001 06:59 AM: I dunno. I totally understand what Psycho Soldier is talking about though. And I know where Kamui is coming from. My $0.02. I learned this skoo year that sometimes playing "for fun/honorable" won't get me anywhere (against SOME players, not all) I simply watch my opponents style and see their limits. Then I play at their level of "cheap" or whatever you guys call it here. Again, I dunno, and neither do I care too much anymore. If you start playing the game too hardcore, you are gonna take victolies and losses personally. It's just a game. I treat it as that. l8z Posted by xin2k on 05:10:2001 07:56 AM: I think that there are honorable ways of playing games. Take basketball for instance. A person who plays defense by hacking all the time won't be respected much as a player, but only as a person who can't play D except by hacking people. It's not likely that you'll see a guy who hacks all the time, cause fights will start on the court because of things like that. The point is that fouls are part of the game of basketball, but that doesn't mean you have to do it purposely to win. Winning that way just doesn't feel like a win to me. If you are willing to do anything to win in an arcade fighter, would you press the other player's taunt button to get an opening for an attack? The button is on the cabinet and part of the game, but would you press it? Anything to win, right? Posted by O.Ryoga on 05:10:2001 01:12 PM: What a bunch of i... no, no, that doesn't sound right... let me see... takes a deep breath...Ok, lets start discussing (I took Demroth as the first one just to leave the psychic for the end) quote: Originally posted by Demroth 1: What's wrong with fireballs? 2: It sounds like you lose a lot. 3: Infinites are part of the game. Capcom knew the game would have them when they put it out. That's one of the reasons that, the damage dealt will go down as the number of hits go up. If infinites where not part of the game why bother programing it to make the char spin out after 45 (or so) hits. You would not need this if there where no infinites. The fact that, that net is in the game shows that Capcom knew you would be able to link hits to at lest 45 hits. 4: Infinites are not a glitch, but an award for the players that take the time to learn them and to further study the combo system. 1) I think he was talking about doing a single move all day long without changing even once. Last week I went to the arcades with a couple of friends and the CvsS machine was taken. The guy playing was using Ryu and all he did was throwing fireballs (he was playing against the CPU). NOT EVEN A TWO HIT COMBO. Man that guy sucked even though he won a couple of matches (it wasn't a long wait, the third team decimated him). 2) I'm not psychic so I don't know how Kuroi plays. 3) Nope, Capcom made the engine so that if there was an infinite left, it would take an long time to finish the opponent, as a way to discourage people from using it (guess they didn't have AHVBxX in mind). It's easier to do than actually doing a better beta testing and code cleaning. 4) How much time and inside knowledge did it take to players to discover AHVBxX? You're giving yourself props for using it, that's all. quote: Originally posted by Demroth People who play for "fun" are not good at the game. Playing for fun doesn't equal to playing to lose. When you play you always try to win, the difference is that you don't grieve over defeats. And about KoF2K, then tell me why the Japs don't do infinites or 100% striker combos? I know the answer but I'd like to see if your psychic power can read Hiragana, Katakana and Kanji. It's pathetic I have to explain this to supposed gamers. Posted by Kamui on 05:10:2001 02:11 PM: "If you start playing the game too hardcore, you are gonna take victolies and losses personally. It's just a game. I treat it as that." I do that myself, I hate it when i do, so i understand why you treat fighters the way you do. However it deosnt last long, and getting angry is the natural thing to do when you lose, it atleast gives me a reason to get better at the very least. Posted by Kamui on 05:10:2001 02:29 PM: "1) I think he was talking about doing a single move all day long without changing even once. Last week I went to the arcades with a couple of friends and the CvsS machine was taken. The guy playing was using Ryu and all he did was throwing fireballs (he was playing against the CPU). NOT EVEN A TWO HIT COMBO. Man that guy sucked even though he won a couple of matches (it wasn't a long wait, the third team decimated him)." Again, a KOF fan referencing skill to a combo. No suprise there :P J/K. If the guy wants to throw fireballs all day let him, thats what he wants to do. When someone just picks up Ryu thats the first thing to start doing anyways. You act like everyone is sapposed to even know what a combo is. Just becuase it makes things boring for you deosnt mean the other player isnt having fun(last time i checked beating someone throwing fireballs all day is pretty fun too). "3) Nope, Capcom made the engine so that if there was an infinite left, it would take an long time to finish the opponent, as a way to discourage people from using it (guess they didn't have AHVBxX in mind). It's easier to do than actually doing a better beta testing and code cleaning." oops, you just tripped over yourself friend. Bieng the KOF fiend that you are you should know better than to say this when SNK deosnt seem to even Beta test there games AT ALL. Remember the infinites that apeared in KOF 95,96,97, still exist in 2000. Hell the OTG throw bug wasnt even fixed until KOF 2000. Since you dont play MvC2 i dont expect you to know any better, but, when someone lands an infinite on you that ends up doing close to zero when the 3rd repetition comes around. It turns out that this actually builds your opponents bar by quite a lot by doing that infinite on them. You MAY have killed 1 chr, but if they have retarded old Cable in the second slot he just now happens to be loaded with 5 supers just becuase of that infinite. Its not as big of a threat as you make it out to be. "Playing for fun doesn't equal to playing to lose. When you play you always try to win, the difference is that you don't grieve over defeats." Sorry but I simply do not believe that you never get angry over a loss, especially someone who argues as much as you do. Its a given, sooner or later you will get angry, the people that say they never do are liars, and the people that truly never get angry dont play the game enough to be good at it, period. Theres really nothing you can say to tell me otherwise theres too much logic behind it. I have respect for the people that try to keep the peace, but people that play just for the fun arent going to get good at the game, they have no reason too. "And about KoF2K, then tell me why the Japs don't do infinites or 100% striker combos? I know the answer but I'd like to see if your psychic power can read Hiragana, Katakana and Kanji." Thats a broad statement, your assuming everyone japanese guy does. Posted by Psycho Soldier on 05:10:2001 02:31 PM: quote: Originally posted by Kamui The people who play to waste time for a few minutes do not post on this board, if they did they wouldnt be playing just for fun. The people that play for a few minutes just to waste time are also people that wont be whining about honor or cheese. I really dont like the group of people that say "oh i just play for fun" when there the same person thats writing a fanfic for the corrisponding game and hangs out at a fighting game dedicated site 24/7, they must take the game some what seriously to do so. These kind of people are also known as liars that are trying to make themselves look less fanboy-ish. It should also be mentioned that a person that does only play for "fun"(again, this is just an excuse for losing, if they were playing for just pure fun they wouldnt be posting here)will also suck at the game, and would be in no position to talk about what he thinks is honorable. There are about a thousand of example of these type of people floating around these very boards, however i will not name names... Oh, so NOW I'm a LIAR for believing what I believe... me thinks you take the whole idea of playing games a little "too seriously". I know a number of people who post here who are just fans of fighting games and play them on a casual basis in the arcades or at home. They play the games for "fun", as a release from the rest of the world and nothing else. But they have great skills in the games that they do play. Does this mean they "suck" as well? The whole concept of fighting games has always intrigued me, therefore I show interest in ALL of the games equally. I'm a master of none, but I have average-advanced abilities in almost all that I play. The whole concept of the game keeps me interested so I will purchase games to play at home and enjoy. And occasionally if I do have some free time I will try to spend an hour or two at an arcade, but beyond that it's just a hobby that I follow and it will always remain that way. So yes, I PLAY GAMES JUST FOR FUN, but the games I DO play I have decent skills in. I don't go around here bragging about who I can beat and who owns who since for every person there is here posting on this forum who are exceptional in their craft, there is another who doesn't who is just as good if not better. The world of SF doesn't begin and end here... we're just a small fraction of all of the fans worldwide. Sure, it's a very large gathering of fans with various skills, but it's not the majority by any means. So yes, I am a little "otaku" towards the games in general. I have been since I played SF1. But everyone shares a certain passion towards their hobbies. I get a kick out of finding as many different fighting games out there in the world, getting a dose of them and making comparisons to other known titles with it's game play, character design, etc. I like seeing how the whole concept evolved from being a simple game like "Karate Champ" to some of the more complex games of today. I like being able to see some sort of consistent themes and theories between games that have absolutely NOTHING to do with each other. I don't necessarily play games to go to an arcade every weekend to play others to prove my skills. If that was the case, then I would be at CTF every weekend getting all those bumps and bruises on the battlefield. I would love to be able to go to arcades on a regular basis like I used to before I moved to NYC, but my career demands too much time for me to be able to diverge into my hobbies as much as I would like. Just because someone may know more than the average, casual player but not enough to always maintain long win streaks in a local arcade DOES NOT MEAN that they suck. Lastly, everyone has their own "vision" to what's honorable. For some, people consider honorable play as a person who does whatever it takes to win (like you). I consider an honorable gameplayer is someone who shows skills beyond the average... someone who can go past the typical textbook/FAQ techniques that anyone can follow and do something different. Here's an example... there has been a debate over the usefullness of Sakura in MvC2. We all know that she's not the best (or "top tier") by any means, but she does have many uses that go beyond her dash assist. PEOPLE LAUGHED AND POINTED FINGERS, calling them scrubs for their beliefs. But now, since a few of the experts stepped up and proved some validation to some of these claims, a lot of that ridicule from those closed minded has ceased. The people who stuck by their beliefs despite being ridiculed by their "peers" are the "honorable" ones here, for they obviously were doing other things that could work before the rest of the "duplicators" were. Being able to go against the grain and do something different than the norm and be successful at it is "honorable" to me... regardless if you win or lose. There AREN'T many people like this out there, and to see someone like this is much more interesting to me than anything else. Those are my beliefs, period, and it goes WAY BEYOND any win streak you can conjure up in a fighting game. *STEPS OFF THE SOAP BOX* I agree... those who constantly cry about honorable gameplay during battle may be using it as an excuse. But those who say that they play "just for fun" COULD be doing just that. Not everyone is as obsessed at becoming the next Duc in MvC2, or the next Alex Valle or James Chen combomaster. Some people just like playing games, and could care less about the outcome as long as they have "fun"... just like me. Kaumi, I try to respect everyone's opinions... just watch your wording next time. Calling someone a liar for their beliefs tends to rustle a few feathers ya know? Posted by JedahZero on 05:10:2001 02:40 PM: Ok ok, so let me get this straight now, people who only play for fun, by definition, suck at the game? Excuse me?? I play for fun. All the time. It's the only reason I play. Yeah, I hang out at SRK, yeah, I own at least 75% of capcom fighting games, and yeah, I play a lot. Does that mean I don't play for fun? Of course not, what kind of garbage is that? Why do YOU play? If it's not for fun, then maybe it's not me who shouldn't be playing, it's you. If I have what I consider to be a good match (and no, infinites do not constitute a good match for me) and lose, then I am happy, because I had fun, and chances are, so did the other guy. I personally would never guard break into AHVBx3 for example, because that removes my chance to play against one of my opponents characters. The less actual playing I do, the less fun I have. Pressing 4 buttons over and over again for 50-some odd hits, is not fun, I can't imagine it would be for the person doing it, or the person recieving it. It's sad that having fun while PLAYING A GAME is less important to people than the 50 cents they put in the machine. Fun is priceless you foo's! Posted by Kamui on 05:10:2001 02:49 PM: "They play the games for "fun", as a release from the rest of the world and nothing else. But they have great skills in the games that they do play." Then they arent bieng totally open, if they are good at the game then they play it for more than just fun. People like to say they only play for fun to keep from looking too fanboy-ish or to keep people from thinking there not serious about it. Thats BS. Im sorry but when someone losses and feels even the slightest of anger or dissapointment, then put their quarter up for another game, its not about fun anymore, its about winning to settle an ego. Thats fact, im sure you understand why. people do not get good at games if there playing just to have fun, its the same reason people say "just play for fun" when someone states "But im not good at the game and ill lose". People stick around to get good and beat people. Take s second to REALLY think about why you play fighters... "So yes, I am a little "otaku" towards the games in general. I have been since I played SF1. But everyone shares a certain passion towards their hobbies." THEN YOU TAKE YOUR GAMING SERIOUSLY!!! Thats what passion is. Its not hard to understand folks. Yes gaming is fun, but dont ignore that little piece of you that cries out for a little egotistical satisfaction, EVERYONE WANTS IT. I dont care who you are. "Some people just like playing games, and could care less about the outcome as long as they have "fun"... just like me." I REALLY wish it was that easy, but its not. If you dont CARE about the outcome of the game then your just not good at the game, you have nothing to work towards. Posted by Kamui on 05:10:2001 02:55 PM: OFCOURSE YOU START PLAYING FOR FUN!!! Everybody knows theres no reason to play unless it was fun....But why is it fun? Is it fun when you lose? No, people try to play it off but nobody likes losing, ever. Bieng friendly is great, having good matches is wonderful, but why are you still around? You want to win. If your playing not just for fun, but to win, then your taking the game seriously. When you dont play the game seriously then you have nothing to work towards becuase you apparentlt dont care about winning, so you have no reason to worry about winning. Do you see the sense in it now? Posted by JedahZero on 05:10:2001 02:57 PM: quote: Originally posted by Kamui "They play the games for "fun", as a release from the rest of the world and nothing else. But they have great skills in the games that they do play." Then they arent bieng totally open, if they are good at the game then the play it for more than just fun. People like to say they only play for fun to keep from looking to fanboy-ish or to keep people from thinking there not serious about it. Thats BS. Im sorry but when someone losses and feel even the slightest of anger or dissapointment, then put there quarter up for another game, its not about fun anymore, its about winning settle an ego. Thats fact, im sure you understand why. people do not get good at games if there playing just to have fun, its the same reason people say "just play for fun" when someone states "But im not good at the game and ill lose". People stick around to get good and beat people. Take s second to REALLY think about why you play fighters... "So yes, I am a little "otaku" towards the games in general. I have been since I played SF1. But everyone shares a certain passion towards their hobbies." THEN YOU TAKE YOUR GAMING SERIOUSLY!!! Thats what passion is. Its not hard to understand folks. Yes gaming is fun, but dont ignore that little piece of you that cries out for a little egotistical satisfaction, EVERYONE WANTS IT. I dont care who you are. "Some people just like playing games, and could care less about the outcome as long as they have "fun"... just like me." I REALLY wish it was that easy, but its not. If you dont CARE about the outcome of the game then your just not good at the game, you have nothing to work towards. Ok, it's example time. I head on down to good ol' Mickey D's to get a quarter pounder with cheese, and they've got the latest game thing goin there, so I get the large fries and drink so I can play. Sure I want to win, but I just do it for kicks. Winning isn't everything, and I certainly am gonna enjoy my large fries Yes, I play games seriously, but I'm serious about FUN. (wow that sounds cheesy) Yes, I enjoy winning, but I get better along with my friends, so we can compare our skills, which is- wait for it- fun! When I get too good, and school my friends regularly, I'll most likely stop practicing for a bit, as it's no fun for me to just school entirely. I remember back in the MvC1 days I had a 75 win streak (with Hulk and Gambit no less), but with the crowd of challengers who kept coming, only 1 or 2 of them were any good. It wasn't any fun beating the rest of them, and as a result, I eventually just left the machine when those 2 good guys left. My point? I play for kicks, so sue me. Posted by Kamui on 05:10:2001 02:58 PM: "They play the games for "fun", as a release from the rest of the world and nothing else. But they have great skills in the games that they do play." Then they arent bieng totally open, if they are good at the game then the play it for more than just fun. People like to say they only play for fun to keep from looking to fanboy-ish or to keep people from thinking there not serious about it. Thats BS. Im sorry but when someone losses and feel even the slightest of anger or dissapointment, then put there quarter up for another game, its not about fun anymore, its about winning settle an ego. Thats fact, im sure you understand why. people do not get good at games if there playing just to have fun, its the same reason people say "just play for fun" when someone states "But im not good at the game and ill lose". People stick around to get good and beat people. Take s second to REALLY think about why you play fighters... "So yes, I am a little "otaku" towards the games in general. I have been since I played SF1. But everyone shares a certain passion towards their hobbies." THEN YOU TAKE YOUR GAMING SERIOUSLY!!! Thats what passion is. Its not hard to understand folks. Yes gaming is fun, but dont ignore that little piece of you that cries out for a little egotistical satisfaction, EVERYONE WANTS IT. I dont care who you are. "Some people just like playing games, and could care less about the outcome as long as they have "fun"... just like me." I REALLY wish it was that easy, but its not. If you dont CARE about the outcome of the game then your just not good at the game, you have nothing to work towards. Posted by Kuroi Sabato on 05:10:2001 03:03 PM: Sigh... OK one more time: quote: Originally posted by Kuroi Sabato And one more thing. I notice that you use this equation: honorable player=loser or scrub. Why is that? I am an honorable player and I win majority of my fights and I'm damn proud of it! At least I win with pure skill rather than doing Clark-Joe infinites all day! An honorable player is much diff. than a whiney loser. Will you please remember that one! Honorable play does not equate to losing! Wanna try me at SC? And another one! As I remembered there was a post here that says this: by playing honorably you are limiting yourselves. Well y'know by winning with infinites/glitches you are limiting yourself! Is that all you have to show to your opponent? Why not just repeat the loop once and finish it then show something different. Just another thought... Posted by JedahZero on 05:10:2001 03:07 PM: quote: Originally posted by Kuroi Sabato And another one! As I remembered there was a post here that says this: by playing honorably you are limiting yourselves. Well y'know by winning with infinites/glitches you are limiting yourself! Is that all you have to show to your opponent? Why not just repeat the loop once and finish it then show something different. Just another thought... damn bro, mad props! couldn't have said it better myself Posted by Psycho Soldier on 05:10:2001 03:11 PM: quote: Originally posted by Kamui OFCOURSE YOU START PLAYING FOR FUN!!! Everybody knows theres no reason to play unless it was fun....But why is it fun? Is it fun when you lose? No, people try to play it off but nobody likes losing, ever. Bieng friendly is great, having good matches is wonderful, but why are you still around? You want to win. If your playing not just for fun, but to win, then your taking the game seriously. When you dont play the game seriously then you have nothing to work towards becuase you apparentlt dont care about winning, so you have no reason to worry about winning. Do you see the sense in it now? Losing is part of the equation... you can't always win your matches. It's a way of life, and you learn to accept it. Therefore, if I know that I'm going to lose I try to focus on the fact that I am playing a game that I like and forget that the person who played against me was better for that one game. Think about it this way... you lose at a VIDEO GAME. It's only 50 cents... it's not like you lost your house, your first born, your sexual partner, etc. The only people that feel bad when they lose are those who go into the game with too many expectations and over inflated egos. If you go into the game with an open minded, carefree attitude, you could careless what the outcome turns out to be. The way that I play games, I expect to lose. I do get my shares of wins, but I don't get obsessed about winning. If I was too bent on winning all the time, then WHY IN THE HELL would I go and place a character like Chin against Iori in KOF? Or place Yuri against Sagat in CvS? Or use a Morrigan/Sakura/Felicia team against someone's Setinal/Storm/Dhalsim in MvC2? I know what it takes to win, yet when I do get a rare chance to go to an arcade and play a game I do something as TWISTED as this. Obviously, I'm not playing the game to "win" in the eyes of someone who "plays to win", so what on EARTH can I be doing here? Playing for "fun", maybe? Correct... circle gets the square. quote: THEN YOU TAKE YOUR GAMING SERIOUSLY!!! Thats what passion is. Its not hard to understand folks. Yes gaming is fun, but dont ignore that little piece of you that cries out for a little egotistical satisfaction, EVERYONE WANTS IT. I dont care who you are. Well, if I need to have my "ego" stroked, there are many other ways for me to get that. I'm a DJ/Producer, so I can easily get that small part of my life taken care of by going to clubs and seeing hundreds or thousands of club goers have a positive reaction to the music I play, or when another DJ plays one of my tracks. I don't necessarily need to see the letters "KO" on a video screen in order to feel "validated". Hence why I have a non-chalant attitude towards winning or losing in video games, despite how serious I am about them at times. Other people have their ways to seek their self worth and validation as well... it doesn't have to be in the form of a video game. Posted by kung-fu negro on 05:10:2001 03:32 PM: STOP WHINING! Posted by Tuff Daddy on 05:10:2001 04:03 PM: quote: Originally posted by kung-fu negro STOP WHINING! Thank you! Stop whining! Posted by Hentai on 05:10:2001 04:22 PM: quote: Originally posted by kung-fu negro STOP WHINING! i'm going to ask you a bunch of questions, and i want to have them answered immediately. Who is your daddy, and what does he do? Posted by O.Ryoga on 05:10:2001 04:33 PM: quote: Originally posted by Kamui Again, a KOF fan referencing skill to a combo. No suprise there :P J/K. If the guy wants to throw fireballs all day let him, thats what he wants to do. When someone just picks up Ryu thats the first thing to start doing anyways. You act like everyone is sapposed to even know what a combo is. Just becuase it makes things boring for you deosnt mean the other player isnt having fun(last time i checked beating someone throwing fireballs all day is pretty fun too). Duh, you're right on the newbies part. It's just that I think you should experiment when playing the CPU (well, that's what I do when a new game comes out). I haven't seen anyone losing to fireballs, and I can't see how doing QCF + P all day is fun, but to each their own (note I don't think it's unhonorable or anything like that). BTW, to make the smiley you have to use the lowercap p. quote: Originally posted by Kamui oops, you just tripped over yourself friend. Bieng the KOF fiend that you are you should know better than to say this when SNK deosnt seem to even Beta test there games AT ALL. Remember the infinites that apeared in KOF 95,96,97, still exist in 2000. Hell the OTG throw bug wasnt even fixed until KOF 2000. Since you dont play MvC2 i dont expect you to know any better, but, when someone lands an infinite on you that ends up doing close to zero when the 3rd repetition comes around. It turns out that this actually builds your opponents bar by quite a lot by doing that infinite on them. You MAY have killed 1 chr, but if they have retarded old Cable in the second slot he just now happens to be loaded with 5 supers just becuase of that infinite. Its not as big of a threat as you make it out to be. You should realize that everytime you say something like the first sentence in this quote, you're about to screw it up. This is not SNK vs Capcom. I know SNK games have infinites (and 2K took it to the retarded level IMHO). Point is infinites are not part of the game (in the sense they were not intended to be there). How companies try to avoid infinites from popping up (or how they discourage people from using them) doesn't mean they're part of the games. quote: Originally posted by Kamui Sorry but I simply do not believe that you never get angry over a loss, especially someone who argues as much as you do. Its a given, sooner or later you will get angry, the people that say they never do are liars, and the people that truly never get angry dont play the game enough to be good at it, period. Theres really nothing you can say to tell me otherwise theres too much logic behind it. I have respect for the people that try to keep the peace, but people that play just for the fun arent going to get good at the game, they have no reason too. The arguing part is because I'm bored at work You want a logical explanation? I'll give it a try: - Games are means of entertainment. And entertainment means having fun. It's logical to say that if you get bored, you're not entertained. If a game bores people, it's deemed to be a failure. - In games you win and lose. Not even the highest top tier player wins all the time (and none us is that particular one). Knowing that, you should be emotionally prepared to lose in any given match (unless you know the guy and you're far superior). If you're prepared to lose, you won't be crying when that happens. Now, that doesn't mean you won't try to improve yourself. Hmmm, tell me what you think about it. quote: Originally posted by Kamui Thats a broad statement, your assuming everyone japanese guy does. You're right in that I didn't ask every Jap player if they do 100% combos and infinites, but I know it's not the trend between them. And it's a fact they don't tend to do so (well, you can ask anyone from Japan if you don't believe me). On the other hand, you assume that people that plays for fun never gets good at it (and you really don't have any base there). Posted by HitmanStriker on 05:10:2001 04:51 PM: quote: Originally posted by Fenrir if you mash all the buttons it will let you out of it... even iron mans... That doesn't always work. I've had people try to mash out of my Magneto infinite by mashing on the buttons and it doesn't work. There IS a way to get out, but I'm not going to tell ya! Lay off the honor BS already! I mean c'mon how in the fucking world are you going to be tournament quality if you play that way? BTW, did you play in the DS tourney? I play with all traps,assists,and infinites but hey, I'm strictly a CvS player so I haven't been spending much time on MvC2 anyways. Well who's gonna care between honor and cheez anyway? Everybody's got their own way of playing. -Roy Posted by Fenrir on 05:10:2001 05:03 PM: yes everyone plays their own way... no ones gonna change that except that person. like i said if you like the way you play... good. if you dont... change. i play my way... it doesnt matter if you dont like it... your not me... im not trying to be rude or anything but you know nothing about me. and if your worring about my qulity of play then try and teach me somethings... thats how you raise the bar... dont just do and not show how you do it... its like saying "oh you dont know how to get out of it? here let me to it to you then..." thats not raising the competition level, its raising your own ego by thinking your better cause you know something they dont... Posted by Fenrir on 05:10:2001 05:11 PM: oh and yes ive learned about the mashing... ive already admitted my mistake... Posted by Kamui on 05:10:2001 05:33 PM: "If you go into the game with an open minded, carefree attitude, you could careless what the outcome turns out to be." If your going into a game with an open minded carefree attitude then your probably not going to win. Bieng careless means you dont care about winning and if you dont care about winning then you dont care about working at getting better at the damn game. Its downright impossible to be even remotely good at these games with that kind of attitude. Dont lie to yourself, whether you really believe in your philosophy or not winning or losing does affect you, it deosnt matter if its a game or not(people are affected emotionally by sports for whatever reason). "The way that I play games, I expect to lose. I do get my shares of wins, but I don't get obsessed about winning." I know what the problem is, you have no self esteem :P Seriously, the people that are good at these games have to KNOW there better than their opponent, walking in with any other mindset = losing the majority of games played. "The way that I play games, I expect to lose. I do get my shares of wins, but I don't get obsessed about winning." There is someone EXACTLY like you on this very board under the nick of DUNOTS. Really nice guy, very inteligent, picks crap chrs becuase he says there more fun to play. Thats all good and fine hes terrible at the games he plays the most. He plays for fun, what you do correct? Well if thats the case then its safe to assume you play about as well as he does. Its an excuse to losing, you actually love these games more than you let people believe(i can tell by the way you talk about them ofcourse), but you say your not serious about them??? Please, you know its not true. "Well, if I need to have my "ego" stroked, there are many other ways for me to get that. I'm a DJ/Producer, so I can easily get that small part of my life taken care of by going to clubs and seeing hundreds or thousands of club goers have a positive reaction to the music I play, or when another DJ plays one of my tracks." I would like to hear some of your stuff sometime. Everybody needs credit for what they do, and although you may be getting your "egotistical nurishment" from your job, your still taking losses in your hobby, something you apprently love. It will affect you sooner or later unless you maybe have another outlet. "Other people have their ways to seek their self worth and validation as well... it doesn't have to be in the form of a video game." Ofcourse not, i have my art if i ever stopped play fighters. The problem is people want validation for what they are currently doing, humans naturally become depressed or irritated when something is working out for them, bieng terrible at anything is no happy experience. Bieng optimisitc is one thing, hiding your feelings is another. Posted by DarthSalamander on 05:10:2001 05:35 PM: Kamui = dominator. He plays to win. He makes little kids cry because he does infinites on them in MvsC2, and laughs when "PERFECT" pops up. Sometimes he beats people with Sent/Wolvie as a joke to show off his skill. He's the best in Austin. I wish as was as good. Posted by Kamui on 05:10:2001 05:46 PM: "BTW, to make the smiley you have to use the lowercap p." I know, im used to the old text based happy faces so i use those, youll notice Psycho Soldier does the same. Quite bieng a smart ass > "This is not SNK vs Capcom. I know SNK games have infinites (and 2K took it to the retarded level IMHO). Point is infinites are not part of the game (in the sense they were not intended to be there). How companies try to avoid infinites from popping up (or how they discourage people from using them) doesn't mean they're part of the games." No they werent intended to be there, but, 80% of the time they DONT HURT THE GAME!!! I cant express this enough. It can somtimes improve it by giving the opposing player something to avoid, improving his gameplan. This weeds out weaker players(that sounds harsh, i dont mean it to be). "In games you win and lose. Not even the highest top tier player wins all the time (and none us is that particular one). Knowing that, you should be emotionally prepared to lose in any given match (unless you know the guy and you're far superior). If you're prepared to lose, you won't be crying when that happens. Now, that doesn't mean you won't try to improve yourself." If losing deosnt bother you then WHY TRY TO IMPROVE YOURSELF??? It makes perfect sense, a reaction to every action. Bieng emotionally prepared means you not bieng a loud mouth moron about your loss. You can still be angry, you just dont have to show it, good players use it to fuel the learning process. People get angry, some are just quiet about it. "You're right in that I didn't ask every Jap player if they do 100% combos and infinites, but I know it's not the trend between them. And it's a fact they don't tend to do so (well, you can ask anyone from Japan if you don't believe me)." The majority of players in most societies will have people complaining about stuff they cant beat, its the easiest way to eliminate the threat. You should ask the better players what they think and not some regular KOF player who happens to be japanese. The japanese seem to take kindly to infinites in MvC2, or Kara throwing in SF3, both ideas that werent meant to be in the corrisponding games yet they use them. Posted by Kamui on 05:10:2001 05:48 PM: QUIET!!! Hahahaha....Yes its so cool when little kids cry outloud after i pummel them with my l33t skillz!!! MWAHAHAHA!!!! :/ quote: Originally posted by DarthSalamander Kamui = dominator. He plays to win. He makes little kids cry because he does infinites on them in MvsC2, and laughs when "PERFECT" pops up. Sometimes he beats people with Sent/Wolvie as a joke to show off his skill. He's the best in Austin. I wish as was as good. Posted by Psycho Soldier on 05:10:2001 05:55 PM: quote: Originally posted by Kamui I know what the problem is, you have no self esteem :P Seriously, the people that are good at these games have to KNOW there better than their opponent, walking in with any other mindset = losing the majority of games played. I don't think it's a self esteem issue... I purposely place myself in these situations to lose with the characters I select. Just like DUNOTS, I too take all the weird looking, weaker characers for I find them more fun to play. In a different thread, I listed some of my favorites, and I don't think anyone on the list were any of the more common, widely used characters. We know what to do in order to win and the characters to select that would make wins more practical. But for some strange reason, I'm attracted to the oddbals... but ONLY in video games, mind you!!! quote: Its an excuse to losing, you actually love these games more than you let people believe(i can tell by the way you talk about them ofcourse), but you say your not serious about them??? Please, you know its not true. It's obvious that I have a love for fighting games, but the reasons why I love them are slightly different than yours. Although, it would be interesting to play against you just to see how intensive a game could be. quote: I would like to hear some of your stuff sometime. My profile has a web page link to my site... or you can click on the link below. My partners and I just got our second record released this week in stores, so hopefully it will do well. http://www.midnight-society.com It's all House music... mostly Deep Tech, some dark tribal and progressive beats with some vocals. Over 4 years of mixes can be found here in RealAudio... from some of my more commercial sounding sets, to the more underground stuff that my partners and I currently do. Lemme know what you think... quote: Everybody needs credit for what they do, and although you may be getting your "egotistical nurishment" from your job, your still taking losses in your hobby, something you apprently love. It will affect you sooner or later unless you maybe have another outlet. I get enough wins in the video games I play to make me happy. I know that if I wanted to be the best, I would have to put more effort into them and actually make choices that make more logical sense than "SonSon/Morrigan/BB Hood vs. Cable/Cyclops/Juggernaut". But I'm content to have that one rare opportnity to be able to choose a little girl who carries guns in her basket and beat up a demi-god. quote: Ofcourse not, i have my art if i ever stopped play fighters. The problem is people want validation for what they are currently doing, humans naturally become depressed or irritated when something is working out for them, bieng terrible at anything is no happy experience. Bieng optimisitc is one thing, hiding your feelings is another. The occasional win is fine for me... I've always adopted the philosophy that I'm not the best, but I'm certainly not the worst, and it has made me a more complacent person in the long run. Posted by State of Nature on 05:10:2001 06:11 PM: quote: Originally posted by O.Ryoga You're right in that I didn't ask every Jap player if they do 100% combos and infinites, but I know it's not the trend between them. And it's a fact they don't tend to do so (well, you can ask anyone from Japan if you don't believe me). Uhhh...did you totally miss the videos White posted of the Japanese Dhalsims and Iron Mans? The Japanese Iron Man was better at setting up and executing the infinite than anybody in America. Posted by DarthSalamander on 05:10:2001 06:20 PM: quote: Originally posted by Kamui QUIET!!! Hahahaha....Yes its so cool when little kids cry outloud after i pummel them with my l33t skillz!!! MWAHAHAHA!!!! :/ hahah and then you wake up! See, I pulled a 360 on you ! hahaha errr wait... that means I'm back where I started 0_o Posted by Kamui on 05:10:2001 07:22 PM: "It's obvious that I have a love for fighting games, but the reasons why I love them are slightly different than yours. Although, it would be interesting to play against you just to see how intensive a game could be." Well dont expect much from me, im not that great. I give it my all though, without boundaries(though i tend to pick weak chrs at times if they fit my play style, like Kyo in CvS). "It's all House music... mostly Deep Tech, some dark tribal and progressive beats with some vocals. Over 4 years of mixes can be found here in RealAudio... from some of my more commercial sounding sets, to the more underground stuff that my partners and I currently do. Lemme know what you think..." Sweet, ill give it a look later. "I get enough wins in the video games I play to make me happy. I know that if I wanted to be the best, I would have to put more effort into them and actually make choices that make more logical sense than "SonSon/Morrigan/BB Hood vs. Cable/Cyclops/Juggernaut". But I'm content to have that one rare opportnity to be able to choose a little girl who carries guns in her basket and beat up a demi-god. " I guess if thats what you want to do then i cant change your mind. Posted by DarthSalamander on 05:10:2001 08:14 PM: quote: Originally posted by Kamui Well dont expect much from me, im not that great. I give it my all though, without boundaries(though i tend to pick weak chrs at times if they fit my play style, like Kyo in CvS). Liar. Your Nak/Guile destroys all. The city winces in your foot steps of doom. You only play Kyo when you feel merciful. Posted by O.Ryoga on 05:10:2001 08:35 PM: quote: Originally posted by Kamui I know, im used to the old text based happy faces so i use those, youll notice Psycho Soldier does the same. Quite bieng a smart ass > Nyah, nyah (and stuff like that) quote: Originally posted by Kamui No they werent intended to be there, but, 80% of the time they DONT HURT THE GAME!!! I cant express this enough. It can somtimes improve it by giving the opposing player something to avoid, improving his gameplan. This weeds out weaker players(that sounds harsh, i dont mean it to be). The point was if they were intended to be there. If an infinite takes alot of skill to be pulled, then you could do something else (instead of turning a 2P game into a single player one) but it's the other guy's fault for letting you do it. If it's easy then it may become stupid (one mistake and you're gone). I know how nice and dandy it sounds the "don't get hit" phrase sounds, but you only perfect scrubs, not real players. quote: Originally posted by Kamui If losing deosnt bother you then WHY TRY TO IMPROVE YOURSELF??? It makes perfect sense, a reaction to every action. Bieng emotionally prepared means you not bieng a loud mouth moron about your loss. You can still be angry, you just dont have to show it, good players use it to fuel the learning process. People get angry, some are just quiet about it. I said I don't get angry on it, I'm not too emotional about this stuff. But I like being a contendant, so I have the need to improve. Someone who loses to the first character is not having fun. quote: Originally posted by Kamui The majority of players in most societies will have people complaining about stuff they cant beat, its the easiest way to eliminate the threat. You should ask the better players what they think and not some regular KOF player who happens to be japanese. The japanese seem to take kindly to infinites in MvC2, or Kara throwing in SF3, both ideas that werent meant to be in the corrisponding games yet they use them. Consider that if there are stupidly easy to do infinites and the first guy to receive a hit dies, then nobody would play the game. I dubt they use it to eliminate a threat (at the level they are they could care less what a newbie or a whinner thinks), I think they found those infinites, mastered them in seconds and decided to leave them aside for the sake of whatever reason they had (having fun, not killing the competition, allowing the introduction of new techniques). This is also for State of Nature: I don't give a rat's ass about MvsC2. So I don't care about the two or three Japs that play it (and Kamui you should know how unpopular that game is in Japan). On Kara Throwing, dunno, is it such a gamebraking thing? I mean, for what I understood it's an overranged throw, not a 100% death move (but we have a close to 0 competition on that game here, so I don't know). Posted by Kamui on 05:10:2001 10:00 PM: "I know how nice and dandy it sounds the "don't get hit" phrase sounds, but you only perfect scrubs, not real players." Hey, i didnt say the "dont get hit" phrase, i said it gives people something to avoid, it perfects there defence to a degree. "I don't give a rat's ass about MvsC2. So I don't care about the two or three Japs that play it (and Kamui you should know how unpopular that game is in Japan)." I do, but i also know that the few players that are playing it as of now are very much well known for the prowess in fighters, and not some regular at neo-geo land. Theres a difference between the general public and the truly good players. "On Kara Throwing, dunno, is it such a gamebraking thing? I mean, for what I understood it's an overranged throw, not a 100% death move (but we have a close to 0 competition on that game here, so I don't know)." Well it depends on who you ask, but no, it isnt gamebreaking, but it is a bug. This only proves my point though, its not gamebreaking, just as infinites in MvC2 are not, and Striker combos in KOF2K(although the engine itself is pretty dumb to begin with as its not beginner friendly). Posted by Kamui on 05:10:2001 10:01 PM: 0_o what have you been smoking? quote: Originally posted by DarthSalamander Liar. Your Nak/Guile destroys all. The city winces in your foot steps of doom. You only play Kyo when you feel merciful. Posted by DarthSalamander on 05:10:2001 10:03 PM: quote: Originally posted by Kamui My name's Kamui. I'm soooooo smart. blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah I hate every game made cuz they all have problems blah blahblah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah Nothing's cheap I gambit glitch all day blahblah blah blah blah blah Posted by Demroth on 05:10:2001 10:04 PM: Where as its not nice to stomp a scrub in 2 seconds flat. It is not dishonorable to play your best all the time, even if you are just against a scrub. Just thought I would repeat that part. If you have skill, you play to win. Some people don't mind if they lose, but they still go for the win. And no, this does not intial whaling at there start button, or kicking them in the groin. Anyone making those examples are just talking extremes to try to make there point. Posted by Kamui on 05:10:2001 10:06 PM: JERK!!! THATS A KICK IN THE HEAD FOR YOU!!! quote: Originally posted by DarthSalamander Originally posted by Kamui My name's Kamui. I'm soooooo smart. blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah I hate every game made cuz they all have problems blah blahblah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah Nothing's cheap I gambit glitch all day blahblah blah blah blah blah Posted by DarthSalamander on 05:10:2001 10:09 PM: quote: Originally posted by Kamui JERK!!! THATS A KICK IN... OH LOOK A SHEEP... ERRR... BRB COME BACK MR SHEEP I WUV YOU Posted by Kamui on 05:10:2001 10:16 PM: How can i argue with that? I do love the sheep...So fuzzy...Gotta love the sheep........................................................................................JERK!!!! quote: Originally posted by DarthSalamander Originally posted by Kamui JERK!!! THATS A KICK IN... OH LOOK A SHEEP... ERRR... BRB COME BACK MR SHEEP I WUV YOU Posted by DarthSalamander on 05:10:2001 10:19 PM: Sorry I was bored. We should rip off Viscant's idea for a thread, what do you think? Also for the sheep thing you gotta say it like a sarcastic Homer Simpson to get the full effect. Posted by blt on 05:10:2001 10:26 PM: marvel vs capcom 2 is fun all the characters in it are fun why play it halfass? you can have the most fun by playing to the fullest, this means using all tactics. later Posted by Cletus Kasady on 05:10:2001 11:29 PM: Though it's probably already been said many a time before (I don't want to read through this whole thing just yet), I'll say it again just in case: It's perfectly fine if you feel like playing with a code of honor. More power to you if you can win. But don't bitch at someone who beats you just because you chose to limit yourself. Thank you. - Cletus Kasady Posted by Cletus Kasady on 05:11:2001 12:05 AM: Need I also mention that people who play with the intent of winning aren't complete idiots who don't want to have fun and insult everyone. Winning != Not Having Fun . And yes, SF3:3S is so exciting when you see someone jumping in...and doing nothing...while his opponent...does nothing because the both of them have to worry about being parried and getting a super. - Cletus Kasady Posted by Kuroi Sabato on 05:11:2001 01:07 AM: Cletus>>> the same here. It's fine by me if you choose to play the other way around. Just don't gloat! That's what I hate most when my opponent is playing rather dishonorably. And don't worry here I don't bitch around when I lose. JedahZero>>> Thank you for the compliments. Posted by JedahZero on 05:11:2001 02:04 AM: Kuroi, no prob bro Cletus, yeah, 3S looks boring, but both players are thinking when the jump in is happening, and stuff will happen when the person lands you know. Essentially that translates into it looking boring, but being fun to play. But I'm going to stop myself before I start ranting Posted by ImMature on 05:11:2001 04:11 AM: *Sigh* even though I'm sick & tired of repeating the same stuff over & over again I think I'll just bite it for the n-th time. So now just some thoughts here & there: 1) How come just everybody who doesn't believe in Cheapness/Honor happens to be a MvC2 player?? Me thinks that all that much exposure to Cheapness is what makes yall to think that way. Hell if it's MvC2 just BE CHEAP! That's what MvC2 is all about after all. Crapcom made that very game sooo damn broken in the hopes of you being as cheap as possible. So just pull the Gambit Glitch, the AHVB etc as much as possible. Oh you dun like it? Dun play MvC2 then 2) For games that are not MvC2, more or less honorable gameplay is OK...as long as you know how to master "dis-honourable gameplay" as well. My advice is: learn every cheap tactics and how to counteract 'em...then when you're good enough you'll be able to indulge yourself in more or less "honorable" gameplay. But since losing sucks just be as cheap as you can in order to win IF NECESSARY. That's all actually... Posted by EvilShOtO on 05:11:2001 04:40 AM: Well U know I don't really have a problem with cheapness in MVC2 cause as many have pointed out...that's what it takes to win. But one thing I do to have my own little "honor" is 1. incourage people to fight at there best and never hold back due to what team I have for I need this to evaluate my level of skill with lower class characters in this case then commend them on a good game win or lose 2.I NEVER i mean NEVER chip anyone to death... the way to go is a clean hit or throw,NEVER CHIP DAMAGE! That iz the easy way out! It takes a LOT more skill and concentration to visualize and make openings when U and Ur opponents lifebar is at near zero with 10 seconds to go. but boy will you feel statisfied the U defeated him on equal terms... either he killed U clean or U killed him clean (Of course this doesn't apply to like the whole match..just towards the end when U have one character each left) EvilShoto Posted by JedahZero on 05:11:2001 04:41 AM: quote: Originally posted by ImMature *Sigh* even though I'm sick & tired of repeating the same stuff over & over again I think I'll just bite it for the n-th time. So now just some thoughts here & there: 1) How come just everybody who doesn't believe in Cheapness/Honor happens to be a MvC2 player?? Me thinks that all that much exposure to Cheapness is what makes yall to think that way. Hell if it's MvC2 just BE CHEAP! That's what MvC2 is all about after all. Crapcom made that very game sooo damn broken in the hopes of you being as cheap as possible. So just pull the Gambit Glitch, the AHVB etc as much as possible. Oh you dun like it? Dun play MvC2 then 2) For games that are not MvC2, more or less honorable gameplay is OK...as long as you know how to master "dis-honourable gameplay" as well. My advice is: learn every cheap tactics and how to counteract 'em...then when you're good enough you'll be able to indulge yourself in more or less "honorable" gameplay. But since losing sucks just be as cheap as you can in order to win IF NECESSARY. That's all actually... That was about as clear as a fat man's ass after a night of hard lovin'. Posted by Hentai on 05:11:2001 06:23 AM: quote: Originally posted by ImMature *Sigh* even though I'm sick & tired of repeating the same stuff over & over again I think I'll just bite it for the n-th time. So now just some thoughts here & there: 1) How come just everybody who doesn't believe in Cheapness/Honor happens to be a MvC2 player?? Me thinks that all that much exposure to Cheapness is what makes yall to think that way. Hell if it's MvC2 just BE CHEAP! That's what MvC2 is all about after all. Crapcom made that very game sooo damn broken in the hopes of you being as cheap as possible. So just pull the Gambit Glitch, the AHVB etc as much as possible. Oh you dun like it? Dun play MvC2 then 2) For games that are not MvC2, more or less honorable gameplay is OK...as long as you know how to master "dis-honourable gameplay" as well. My advice is: learn every cheap tactics and how to counteract 'em...then when you're good enough you'll be able to indulge yourself in more or less "honorable" gameplay. But since losing sucks just be as cheap as you can in order to win IF NECESSARY. That's all actually... ok, first off i'm not an MVC2 player anyone who knows me knows im not, i don't really play it outside of just for kicks, i mainly play third strike, capcom vs snk, ST and a2/a3, that said. do you think crouch cancel infinites in A3 are wrong? kara-cancels in 3s? O. versions of people in st? (guile,ryu,sagat,ken, etc) glitchs, traps, lockdowns, all this shit has always been part of street fighter and always will be. bitching about things being cheap is a waste of breath, just hope the next version of the game looses the problems. Posted by JedahZero on 05:11:2001 01:37 PM: quote: Originally posted by Hentai ok, first off i'm not an MVC2 player anyone who knows me knows im not, i don't really play it outside of just for kicks, i mainly play third strike, capcom vs snk, ST and a2/a3, that said. do you think crouch cancel infinites in A3 are wrong? kara-cancels in 3s? O. versions of people in st? (guile,ryu,sagat,ken, etc) glitchs, traps, lockdowns, all this shit has always been part of street fighter and always will be. bitching about things being cheap is a waste of breath, just hope the next version of the game looses the problems. The only reason it always will be is because Capcom is lazy. All that's gonna change when I work there... ah who am I kidding? Capcom won't hire me Posted by Cybermitsu on 05:11:2001 02:23 PM: Etiquette and Honor are dead in this world. (All parts of chivalry...) The guys that I play never show me mercy for shit. But after the numerous beatdowns and ass whoopings, I find myself getting a bit more stronger. My combos are a little more complex. My timing gets better. My instincts get sharper. I remember my semi-retirement from MvC2. I was pretty depressed during this time because I couldn't get my MvC2 game to evolve properly. Hell, it wasn't growing at all. My friends call me up and we hit the arcade to relax. Next thing that I know, I have a win streak of about 15 or so from a cold start. My belief can be summed up into this: you play to survive, which means that anything and everything goes. However, do not fear that your skills blow; they are actually getting better than you think. Posted by Fenrir171 on 05:11:2001 02:29 PM: I AGREE... YOUR SKILLS DO GET BETTER WITH THE PLAY OF BETTER PEOPLE... LIKE ONE OF MY FRIENDS SAID... YOU HAVE TO GET YOUR ASS KICKED TO LEARN... OH AND BY THE WAY IM AM FENRIR... SHO FUCKED UP MY OTHER NAME CAUSE I TRIED TO LOG ON FROM ANOTHER COMPUTER... SO DONT TRY IT... ANYWAYZ ILL HAVE MORE LATER TODAY... Posted by O.Ryoga on 05:11:2001 05:05 PM: quote: Originally posted by Kamui Hey, i didnt say the "dont get hit" phrase, i said it gives people something to avoid, it perfects there defence to a degree. Yeap, but being in the "one hit = death" situation makes you play so overdefensive (or overcautious) that is almost no fun. I think I've read in this thread or in a 3S thread that that happens on 3S with Kara Throws and Parries. quote: Originally posted by Kamui I do, but i also know that the few players that are playing it as of now are very much well known for the prowess in fighters, and not some regular at neo-geo land. Theres a difference between the general public and the truly good players. Don't get what you mean about NeoGeo Land. Besides, some (supposedly) good players, playing MvsC2 don't amount to anything. Lots of players doing so at all other 2D fighting games do. If you say that having a couple of guys playing each other matter then you're contradicting yourself (you said the opposite in another BBS). Bear in mind that not all countries care so much about top tier players. quote: Originally posted by Kamui Well it depends on who you ask, but no, it isnt gamebreaking, but it is a bug. This only proves my point though, its not gamebreaking, just as infinites in MvC2 are not, and Striker combos in KOF2K(although the engine itself is pretty dumb to begin with as its not beginner friendly). In fact, it doesn't prove anything. Some people think Kara Throws are gamebreaking and some not (it proves neither side of the argument). And KoF2K engine is dumb in the sense that it allows, easy to do, infinites, so IT IS beginner friendly. Still, I think it's more playable if you limit the amount of damage you do in a combo. Say you pick someone from the floor once, OK, instead of picking him again in the same combo you may let him live (and finish him with something else), you've already shown you can kill him (and I dubt you'll get any respect from doing something THAT easy). Oh well, lets finish this (we both know this discussion will never end and we already know each other's points). Posted by Nos99 on 05:11:2001 05:32 PM: Here's my POV. If it's in the game, use it. It might be damn "cheap", frustrating, or just downright abusive.. but hey, tough shit. He who wins is the better player. Now, some things (especially glitches/bugs) can ruin a game.. They can be that strong of a tactic that it's just CRAZY trying to compete against it. Really really hard to fight. Ever play a good Guile in WW? Never mind that he was damn strong character.. if he lands magic throw it's over. you = Fuct. This kind of shit breaks games.. Now, you can't expect your opponent to NOT use this kind of stuff. They paid their money, they can play. Amongst your buddies and stuff you can try to lay down some rules to avoid stuff like this.. But if your opponent wants to do it, and you can't compete against it, then screw it and don't play. We play to win right? And some people might take it upon themselves to win ANY way possible, not matter how "dishonourable". It might be all about who can set up super cheap tactic first/the best, or in the case of WW, who can put in their quarters the fastest. (Which is one of the many reasons why I think WW is shitty game). Posted by ImMature on 05:12:2001 05:58 AM: quote: Originally posted by JedahZero That was about as clear as a fat man's ass after a night of hard lovin'. D00d do I have to talk like I was Mojojojo to make myself clear? Ok then, this trick always works at work anyways: There is no room for honor in MvC2. MvC2 is not designed for honorable gameplay. So if you're trying to play MvC2 honorably you're wrong. Cause that's not the style of gameplay that programmers endorse in MvC2. So no honour in MvC2. Just be cheap in MvC2. I'm not telling you to be cheap in KOF or SC or any other game. MvC2 is the game you have to be cheap with. So be cheap. For there is no honor in MvC2. Just a bunch of players trying to "out-cheap" each others. The cheaper you are, the more successful. So be as cheap in MvC2 as possible Posted by teammember001 on 05:12:2001 06:33 AM: Etiquette, respect, cheap, what a bunch of crap!!! So you shouldn't do 3 points on basketball because it's cheap, and not do more than one goal advantage at soccer, or do a move that your opponent can't beat at an ultimate fighting championship. Man, how stupid some of you can be... Posted by ImMature on 05:12:2001 06:43 AM: quote: Originally posted by teammember001 Etiquette, respect, cheap, what a bunch of crap!!! So you shouldn't do 3 points on basketball because it's cheap, and not do more than one goal advantage at soccer, or do a move that your opponent can't beat at an ultimate fighting championship. Man, how stupid some of you can be... Dunno, I thought that pretending to be a Jap on the Internet when you're actually some guy from Cali who surfs was even stupider... Posted by Demroth on 05:12:2001 07:47 AM: It looks like everyone has said there shit and then said it again and again and again. No one has changed there view and I don't think anyone will at this point. Thou I know this will come up again I feel its time to let this thread die. If you play with honor, good for you. Just don't cry when I kick you ass with anything you feel is cheep. I play the way I play because I like to win. If anyone thinks anyone or everyone els should only play a certon way don't play in the arcades or just play with your friends. Anyone who plays the game in the arcade on a regular basis will at sometime play a person that uses traps, infinites, and or glitches. You can ether deal with it or whine about it. Your stance on "honorable play" will not matter to your opponent. More so, if you don't like playing such people. You will not have practice against how they play. The only way to deal with these people is to play them and learn to deal with there tactics. Knowing that you would not see a tactic as cheep if you could beat it easily. You will lose to what you feel is cheep. Its not until after you can deal with it easily that you will not find it cheep. Thus the people that think others play cheep or unhonorable lose. No wonder they complain a lot. Posted by GoldenVulf on 05:12:2001 09:18 AM: HoNAR and ta vays o' vengeens! Yes it is as you ph33r3|> ! t3h l33t GOLDENVULF rises from the ashes of metahumanity. (I was on sabbatical) HaHARAHHAEEHARR! YeThs!! Many tiems haev i s encounta'd teh meeannos who palay wiff teh gurt >cheaPNESS!!!!1<. You must overcome! them. her si my tipss to beet teh cheap-o-ass palayers!! 0.)tip ZERO (0) WING ZERO method!- just palay better than them! (never works, thus alternative methods below.) 1.)tipso numero 1. Slaps inna face - Giva the big cheap ass a slap to theface! feel free to add any disparaging comments liek: "DIE FRUIT-BAT!" or teh evar popular: "Eat a Bag o' HELL!" 2.)The Second Tip Unleash Holy Fist of Justice - self explanatory 3.)Tres tippanos!. Rape their girl friend (Infront of them if possible)- she probably unsatisfied by the nerdo lard ass who plays Merval versus Capgun alladay! She wood enjoy it so j00 do benefits to humanity Rape try molesting instead!! It si more polite. If these comments get me bannered it is cuz of immaturity!! 4.)SHI (SHI means 4 in japanese, but also means death!) BUSTA CAP! Pacifist CRUSH! - Make them the deaths! 5.) being right out..... drum roll.....ba-dum, ba-dum... USE TEH PULSAR!!! HAH HAH!! j00 now haevs teh knowledge so no need to whine and complain when the cheapos humiliate you!! Remember!! "EVERY PROBLEM CAN BE SOLVED WITH A SLASH" -Kibigami Genjuro HaaHAA OHHOH HOH HAR!!! DID j00 thinks i was gone! now I was merely "DEAD BUT DREAMING" liek teh octopus-head-man! Posted by GoldenVulf on 05:12:2001 10:09 AM: PULSAR!!! Posted by Artemecium on 05:12:2001 11:40 AM: Thoughts Infinites and such are probably not intended to exist but remain in the game because it's essential to the rest of the system. I can get out of ANYTHING cheap that my opponent does by mashing. Mashing his buttons Posted by Demroth on 05:12:2001 06:51 PM: Re: HoNAR and ta vays o' vengeens! quote: Originally posted by GoldenVulf Yes it is as you ph33r3|> ! t3h l33t GOLDENVULF rises from the ashes of metahumanity. (I was on sabbatical) HaHARAHHAEEHARR! YeThs!! Many tiems haev i s encounta'd teh meeannos who palay wiff teh gurt >cheaPNESS!!!!1<. her si my tipss to beet teh cheap-o-ass palayers!! Argh. Head hurts. I read this first thing in the morning. I thought I just could not focus. Posted by EndLeSS8 on 05:13:2001 12:58 AM: quote: Originally posted by Kamui "If you start playing the game too hardcore, you are gonna take victolies and losses personally. It's just a game. I treat it as that." I do that myself, I hate it when i do, so i understand why you treat fighters the way you do. However it deosnt last long, and getting angry is the natural thing to do when you lose, it atleast gives me a reason to get better at the very least. Damn this thread is finally back. I was looking for it, couldn't find it till now. What you said..are you agreeing with me, or not? Cuz I dunno. LOL! Yea when I lose in what I define as a good match, I'm like "damn, I'm gonna play again". But when I lose in what I define as an annoying cheeze match, I get mad. But then again, I don't dwell on that anymore. The next day I would have forgot. Sure I want to do better, but I don't want to do better so that I don't have time to do normal stuff in REAL life (eg. eating, showering) Again, am I argueing, or agreeing? I dunno. Wait I'm talking to Kamui! I must be arguing! LOL! About getting better (kinda OT), sometime it's not just about getting better, but having the balls to use good tactics. My example: Kyo's Dwn B, Stand C, HCF+P etc as Anti-air. I can do that almost flawlessly now against the computer, but against humans, I don't have the balls to use it at all. It's not always about "getting better" but about the instinct...ya know? And another thing...it's sometimes the setup of the machine. I can't use HK style joysticks worth CRAP. It's really REALLY annoying. So unless I pump another jillion dollars into mastering THE JOYSTICK TYPE (not the game mind you) I can't play to my full potention. Solly, but I'm not that hardcore so that I want to win THAT bad. Ahhh, real life is good. l8z Posted by JedahZero on 05:13:2001 03:30 AM: quote: Originally posted by ImMature D00d do I have to talk like I was Mojojojo to make myself clear? Ok then, this trick always works at work anyways: There is no room for honor in MvC2. MvC2 is not designed for honorable gameplay. So if you're trying to play MvC2 honorably you're wrong. Cause that's not the style of gameplay that programmers endorse in MvC2. So no honour in MvC2. Just be cheap in MvC2. I'm not telling you to be cheap in KOF or SC or any other game. MvC2 is the game you have to be cheap with. So be cheap. For there is no honor in MvC2. Just a bunch of players trying to "out-cheap" each others. The cheaper you are, the more successful. So be as cheap in MvC2 as possible thank you for clearing things up Posted by teammember001 on 05:15:2001 04:35 AM: quote: Originally posted by ImMature Dunno, I thought that pretending to be a Jap on the Internet when you're actually some guy from Cali who surfs was even stupider... I'm a canadian and you have mental problems. BTW, how are doing yours 1576 imaginary friends that are all the same person hating on you on these boards? Go see a doctor... Posted by ImMature on 05:15:2001 05:01 AM: quote: Originally posted by teammember001 I'm a canadian and you have mental problems. BTW, how are doing yours 1576 imaginary friends that are all the same person hating on you on these boards? Go see a doctor... Oh and how good *your* doctor is? Is he making any progress at last? (Rethoric question: I already know he isn't) Posted by Akuma2002 on 05:15:2001 05:17 AM: another thread that went nowhere :P Posted by Desert Sky Mngr on 05:15:2001 05:29 AM: um for all you out there who think CHEAP is the way Capcom meant MVC2 to be YOUR ARE TOTALLY WRONG as soon as they saw all the shit out there that is now considered a part of the game . It was quickly remedied with the beta version in less that 90 days all the CHEESE was fixed, but the American arcade systems were to cheap to import it. THE beta version ( as far as I have read ) is all about combos and assists, combos reaching into the 600 and all the glitches we call CHEAP were removed , so Capcom fixed what you call a fighting style ................DSM Posted by teammember001 on 05:16:2001 07:31 AM: Whatever, dude... every knowed player has you as shit synonimous, so that's pretty much what we all need to know. Posted by Dasrik on 05:16:2001 11:40 AM: quote: Originally posted by Desert Sky Mngr um for all you out there who think CHEAP is the way Capcom meant MVC2 to be YOUR ARE TOTALLY WRONG as soon as they saw all the shit out there that is now considered a part of the game . It was quickly remedied with the beta version in less that 90 days all the CHEESE was fixed, but the American arcade systems were to cheap to import it. THE beta version ( as far as I have read ) is all about combos and assists, combos reaching into the 600 and all the glitches we call CHEAP were removed , so Capcom fixed what you call a fighting style ................DSM You're an idiot. Die. Posted by Mr Creed on 05:16:2001 01:29 PM: I agree with all of the points that you people have made and I definately agree that once you get good at a game you instinctively become competitive. When I play I expect to win. In all modesty I can say that around my area I am one of the best SF players (Its not hard to be here in OZ admittably). When I lose to a good player once or twice I accept it, but when I start losing consistently I get pissed, as do all the decent players I know. Its not about losing your 50c or whatever, its about losing respect. The locals expect you to win on a regular basis, if you dont, well its pretty damn imbarassing IMO. I used top be the same with B'ball. I enjoyed playing against people who were talented or who I didnt like, simply because the victories would be more satisfying. Taking these games seriously adds to the fun IMO. If beating good opponents didnt give me a certain feeling of satisfaction, then I wouldnt play at all. I think it would also be fair to assume that every member who comes to these forums to discuss games obviously takes them reasonably seriously, or else why would they bother coming at all? Posted by PK on 05:16:2001 04:42 PM: the only thought i have in my mind when i play is have fun, and play with everything you got... I love to win and to win when your opponent gives his/her all is the only way to play.. if that person isn't throwing me, then it's not right, if that person isn't using all the Super/Visms, then that isn't right... if that person still has a super/vism meter at the end of round 3, then that isn't right.. give it all or don't put your quarter up... true... Posted by Hentai on 05:16:2001 05:02 PM: WILL THIS THREAD NEVER DIE! GAHHHHHHH! DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE Posted by diegovaz on 05:17:2001 11:53 AM: So what is this thread about anyway? ???? Posted by jedirobb on 05:17:2001 03:09 PM: its all about the love... robb = ) Posted by Kuroi Sabato on 05:17:2001 05:01 PM: Back from the grave!!! This thread is what? Already in the xth page but now it's back! Heh! Let's keep this alive! Hell yeah! No more serious talk just plain spammin' and "its all about the love..."!!! Man! I'm bored. LOL!!! Posted by Fenrir171 on 05:21:2001 08:10 AM: well if you want to spam... Posted by Fenrir171 on 05:21:2001 08:12 AM: hoochie hoochie hoochie hoochie hoochie boom boom boom boom boom boom boom Posted by Desert Sky Mngr on 05:22:2001 01:19 PM: i geuss these ppl have never been held in a corner and drained to death YEAH lots of fun there ..............................DSM All times are GMT. The time now is 11:00 PM. 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